Rumor: Cisco Systems to lay off IT contractors
According to rumors from insider sources*, Cisco Systems to cancel several internal projects (including Web 2.0 and R&D projects), laying off IT contractors, most of them are H1B visa workers. Cisco IT contractors are not actual Cisco employees, they are working through ‘vendor’ companies (also known as ‘body shops’). But the layoffs are real. Most likely these layoffs will not be listed in the Company layoff statistics.
Update (02-04-2009): Cisco Systems: Possible large (up to 10 percent) jobs cut in 2009
Update (02-24-2009): Rumor: “1800 More just got laid off at Cisco”, Austin, TX
Update (02-25-2009): Cisco Confirms Global Job Cuts
Update (03-12-2009): Cisco quietly downsizing through outsourcing
*WARNING: We cannot guarantee the accuracy of information as it is only an individuals point of view. We will investigate and/or omit any complaints of inaccuracy.
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Any confirmation yet ? The rumors are flying here.
Round Robin, no confirmation yet. Rumors are everywhere at the company’s campus at McCarthy blvd, San Jose. There is some growing anxiety among “red badge” (contractors) population.
It is true that Cisco is laying off all IT contractors. They also paused many projects. I am one of the affected.
I have never witnessed wasteful spending as egregious by that of Cisco. If they cleaned up their act by cutting phone and internet service reimbursements for office employees, monitored spending on corporate cards, and eliminated weekend bonus pay for salaried workers, they could save enough money to save all these jobs.
I suspect I know this Bob guy. The only weekend pay goes to support workers in TAC. That money compensates for forced overtime.
Maybe americans can get their jobs back now?
It’s true, my former boss told me. I was out of his group by the time the layoff hit but all IT contractors were cut. I don’t have hard numbers but I hear the number is around 8000.
Hey guys, has the layoff already happened or will happen?
I got Layed off from RTP this past week….They cut alot of service allowances for food and beverage which really affected a lot of folks.
Weekend bonus pay for salaried workers?? I wish my husband (a salaried Cisco worker) got that! Never has happened.
Yes the rumors are true. My friend was layed off today. They have not made a formal release, but it sounds like there will be more in the coming days.
Where was your friend layed off, DR? What site? It seems to me that Chambers will do everything to keep layoffs from becoming public.
I believe Cisco has recruited a lot of network engineers and java programmers with work visa in past 2 years where those skills could have been easily trained and procured in US.
the DOL and INS if they check on Cisco, am sure, the people of america will know the real truth.
Let’s be clear - letting go of contractors is not “laying off” but ending a contract. This is a completely separate matter. It may be an omen but not sure? Contractors are paid a premium for their services and ending the contract is always a part of the possibilities - regardless of economic times.
So, are layoffs of FTE (full time employees) happening???!!
#13: When I was ‘red-badging’ at the company, there were 1-2 FTEs and about 30-40 ‘red badges’ who were (check this!) reporting to those 1-2 FTEs, even though we’ve all been at the same engineering positions.
Also ‘red badges’ were asked to work overtime, but prohibited to bill for overtime hours.
So, to kick out a few dozens of ‘red badges’ - not a problem, and the company could do it quietly. To kick out a couple of FTEs - the company has to give them severance packages, inform state WARN, etc, etc.
Location: Cisco campus at Tasman drive, San Jose, CA
[...] Layoffs at Cisco Systems [1-29-2009] [...]
what is your prediction/expectation at cisco while declaring quarterly results? on Feb-04-2009
Indo-Asian workers dominate the technical staff in Silicon Valley (Cisco foreign operations crown jewel is India), and I do not think most American citizens will weep for the job loss of H1B visa workers.
Green badge @ 13:
I was a red-badger for four years and as valuable as any of the green badgers I worked with. ±When you end ALL the IT contracts simultaneously, it’s a f*** layoff. Take your green badge adn shove it up your a**.
#13 Without commenting specifically on Cisco, HP or Google, a lawyer I know said the tech industry has a reputation for favoring younger workers. “The amount of age discrimination is absolutely outrageous,” he said. “In the high-tech industry, if you’re over 35, you’re over the hill.”
“The Internet changes very rapidly,” he said. “This affects youngsters and oldsters. You can be outdated long before you’re old?just because technology is changing a lot faster than you are. As a contractor you can face sex and age bias and no Federal judge gives a $hit even if you must work do all of your work on site and your boss make Attila the Hun look line your Uncle Joe Stalin.” You can hide your age on your resume but your age will tell when hired or interviewed and the same goes for cripples and the blind.
If any organisation is retaining foreign guest workers. This is what you may have to do.
If you know any foreign guest worker who is retained. The possiblity is that the organisation is also applying for Green Card for all these candidates. More often the job title of the candidate on the Green Card process is different than the actual job title, USCIS is unaware in most of the cases. The salary, the educational qualification is also different for most of the cases. This is because the Green Card has to be filed based on certain norms.
Please inform USCIS and provide them with the details of the candidate, the location etc. Also cc these two Senators Durbin and Grassley. USCIS will take action. May be we can get some jobs back.
Please pass these to all your friends and family members.
Please act now, also add this to all the blogs that you know.
Please act now…..
Cooks, drivers sent to US as engineers
G S Vasu & Vikram SharmaFirst Published : 23 Jan 2009 01:48:00 AM ISTLast Updated : 23 Jan 2009 02:52:49 PM ISTHYDERABAD: A new dimension is emerging in the infamous Satyam saga. Information available with the Express suggests that thousands of people have been sent to the United States by the IT major on the basis of fake educational and employment certificates.
Highly-placed sources told this paper that this has been happening over the years and it is possible that a significant number of them may or may not be with the company now.
One reason for Satyam to resort to this step is the need for assistants of a varied nature — drivers, cooks, attenders, gardeners — for its highranking officials employed in the US.
While Indians are available for a pittance, employing a US citizen for similar works is a far more costlier proposition. What is interesting is that a majority of those packed off to the US for sundry jobs (projecting them as engineers) come from villages in Ramalinga Raju’s native district West Godavari in coastal Andhra Pradesh. Most of them belong to his community.
While Satyam employed North Indians in top positions, it chose those from Ahmedabad as low-level assistants.
About 400 of them from Hyderabad figure in the long list of those sent to the US by manipulating the records. It is also possible that hiring officials in Satyam, who allegedly offered employment to job-seekers for pecuniary consideration, may have provided fake employment papers to those intending to go to the US if they are not Satyam associates.
Politicians and others, whom Satyam has to keep in good humour, may also have used the Satyam label to obtain visas in cases where they have a vested interest.
The CID wing of the AP Police, which is probing the Satyam scandal, has sniffed this angle too and is in the process of gathering details.
#20-#21
Does any one remember the history of slavery and migrant workers in the U.S.?! If you do not you missed out on the demonic side of the human condition. Right now there is a greater incentive for some employers to hire illegal and or legal foreign workers because of the expectation of final reward and the reward is greater than any punishment. I mean the reward even in the face of a crime is greater than the punishment. The employer is given incentives by customers, investors and yes the state - weak labor laws, tax write offs and trade agreements all help the employer add value to their bottom line. Foreign labor look to America for greater economic opportunity not only for him or her self but their family, and the opportunity for gain is worth risking the punishment even life might be difficult if hired be they legal or illegal.
For all of you grumblers, h1 and contractors actually do *more* work and deserve to stay. They help keep the products coming out and building your economy. If it were not for them you would have been stuck with the few companies from the 80s, and there would not have been this huge IT industry, from which we all benefit. So please get real, and don’t give blind statements that the h1 should be layed off before citizens. What is the use of a citizen who does not work?
The H1B workers are hired because corporations get them a lot cheaper than American science and engineering graduates. I don’t agree with our arrogant attitude. Not all Indian and Asian workers are more capable. The mystique is an illusion. There are pleny of competent Americans that could produce and get products out.
Not really.
Software workers in India will be cheap if you convert US dollars to indian rupees. But they are not cheap within their respective economies.
Labor laws in US dictate a minimum salary wage for H1B. It is at the average income for a software professional. Hence paid cheap is not particularly true. There might be some cases where this is happening but it has resulted in arrests and criminal penalties for violation of labor laws.
If there are plenty of americans who will *work* at wages earned by H1B workers in USA, then companies would hire them.
The keyword is *work* here. I have a lot of experience dealing with americans and Indians here in the valley. The harsh truth is our kids do not *work* like people on H1B do.
The main reason H1B workers are more diligent is that they do not have a base here, like family support etc. They have to fend for themselves.
If americans will *work* [get themselves trained, etc.] for the same wages [which is within congress's minimum wage] then companies will hire americans. But alas, american kids want to party!
You both have a lot of sweeping generalities. HUMANS can have or not have a work ethic. Comparing teenagers and professionals also isn’t valid. I’ve seen both American and H1B workers who were lazy, and both American and H1B workers who put in a lot of effort. I thought the point of the H1B visa program was to bring in additional trained workers because there was a shortage of trained workers in the U.S. With the massive layoffs recently, this is definitely not the case anymore. American citizens should be given priority for American jobs.
#23
You make some valid points, but the problem you have not addressed is what are we as a society going to do with our surplus labor pool that is unemployed/unemployed as we face a crumbling tax base with under funded services from our energy grid, roads, bridges, schools, medical care delivery system, and elder care. America is not only facing fiscal crisis, but one of many with regards to global warming, wars, trade and human services. In less than 65 years we have gone from a superpower to an economy on life support that is kept alive by debt to China and Japan. Our tax system has become corrupting as has our business laws.
George Bush owes almost his entire fortune to a tax increase that was funneled into his pocket and into the use of eminent domain laws to essentially legally cheat other people out of their land for less than it was worth to enrich him and his fellow investors. I quote is a prominent Republican lawyer married to a United States senator who is the expert in Texas on municipal finance. The subsidy, he says, is $202.5 million. And Bush and his partners captured about 168 million of it.
Donald Trump benefits from a tax specifically levied by the State of New Jersey for the poor. Part of the casino winnings tax in New Jersey is dedicated to help the poor. But $89 million of it is being diverted to subsidize Donald Trump’s casino’s building retail space.
That’s right. And that’s always the biggest scandal is what is legal. Steve Jobs. Well, Steve Jobs got $70 million of stock options at a meeting of the board of Apple company directors that never took place.
In fact, Steve Jobs arranged to have his fraudulently-issued options exchanged for restricted stock worth hundreds of millions. And the government did not take any action against him. Mean while under the Bush Admin the courts and the Bush Admin made it harder for small investors to sue. Jobs did not have to hire a lawyer, Apple investors hired gave him one.
The state prosecuted two people under him, one of whom said, “I warned Mr. Jobs about this.” Mr. Jobs says, “You know I really didn’t understand the rules.” For the past 8+ years the tax payers not only gave major companies tax cuts but incentives, but companies like Cisco and Google added more jobs over seas than they did here and opine that they can not find applicants here and they fight any tax that could be used to improve our public school system or schools like San Jose State must go begging. You know who gets the lion share of corporate money in education - well it is not State U or U State, but the schools that need it the least.
One of your most revealing stories from the books David Cay Johnston for me is about the small merchant of a fishing and outdoor gear who’s put out of business by a big competitor who gets $32 million in subsidies from the local government.
Well, you know, if you walk into many of the big box retailers today, you have to pay sales tax at the cash register on whatever you buy. Well, in many of those stores, the government never gets the money. The owners of the stores get to keep it. And who are the big beneficiaries of that? The Walton family that owns Wal-Mart and the Cabela family who own Cabela’s, which is a fin, feather, and fur outfitting club for fishermen and hunters. And in this little town — in the Poconos, 4,100 people — they came and said, “We want to build the world’s largest outdoor store. $32 million dollars. And the local town fathers went for it because they said all these jobs it’ll create and all this economic benefit. And Jim Weaknecht who runs this little tiny store that makes enough money that his wife can stay home and raise their children.
He’s outraged. He goes, “Nobody gave me a subsidy. If I had gone to City Hall and said, ‘Give me a million dollars,’ they would have laughed at me.” And, you know, he charged lower prices than Cabela’s. They still ran him out of business. This little town gave the Cabela family the equivalent of about 11 years of the entire city budget for police and fixing the streets and everything else. And this is going on all across America. Cabela promised jobs and more money flowing through the economy but that hasn’t happened.
You know, we used to put people to death 500 years ago for loaning money for usury. And for a long time the government regulated the kind of interest that you could charge. And then we had a Supreme Court decision in 1978. And the Supreme Court in that said, you know, ’cause the way the law’s written we’re basically undoing the usury laws in this country. And Congress, pay attention, you need to do something to address this. Well, Congress did. Discovered it was a fabulous way to milk banks and related companies for campaign contributions. Today banks will tell you that if usury is good for the banks it good for America and they must ding every one because a few debts will be bad. U know what is the biggest profit center for banks - it’s not home loans but credit cards.
It’s not about living with in your means but living because wages have been flat for years but prices have not folks try to fill in the difference with credit. The leading cause of bankruptcy is not folks avoiding debts but they face death, bad health, job income loss and divorce. Now you can save up for 6 months but what does one do after 6 months with no job to match the debts, cut backs and the cost of having a pulse.
Well, that tremendous economic growth we thought we had for the past 30 years has turned out to be a big ponzi scheme. Despite the bust and I mean some investors and executives walked away very rich after firing the serfs. Most are still in their office. According to Kevin Phillips they and very important others including the state stood by and did nothing or simply assisted them in a crime against the People. They cooked the books, they spun the facts and misreported the real news. The problem is where it’s going. The increases in income and wealth are all taking place at the very top. In fact 2005 the richest one percent increased their income by far more than the total income of the bottom 20 percent. My contention is that it is government policy that is causing this to happen, that in all sorts of different ways there was a time when government policy was to create and nurture and build a middle class. We have a GI bill. We built an interstate highway system. We invested in education and hospitals. Now we have a government whose policy is to enrich the already rich and make them richer. That’s its focus. And I believe that if we continue down that road you create instability and you don’t create as much wealth. The system is so broken that the state EDD office can do no more than help one file for a few months of unemployment benefits and help you write a resume no matter if you have a PhD or a GED.
Any layoff at Cisco 2009?
No
I am not aware of Cisco filling a WARN notice with the state of Calofornia, but I suppose if they did so last month the layoff will come no later than March
They don’t have to file a WARN notice to cut contractors. They just cut us loose. They just cut a friend of mine with NO notice. Cisco is full of bastards.
The WARN Act does not apply to contractors, you are right, Red Badge, but it also does not apply to some temp or full time workers under some exemptions and conditions. When labor come to terms with the fact that they serve at the pleasure of the employer and at his will, they can stop being a VICTIM and become proactive until then they can play the VIOLIN and keep blaming the employer about how mean and heartless he is. Right now most are happy to be a working lap dog
Managers in cisco systems are highly corrupted, particularly Indian managers, they are highly benefitted from contracting company. a friend of mine said these managers demand around 5-10 dollar per hour per contractor from these consulting companies. here is the way it works
when there is a req, managers will contact only specific consulting company (resumes will be automatically rejected if it is send by other companies) the cost is high due to managers comission, so they prefer only people in H1B visa
Attitude of an Indian in H1B visa —-
A H1B visa holder Indian will always think of stability and try to get his greencard, he will be ready to compromise for lower billing rate, this makes an advantage to these consulting companies.
I can list the cisco managers names and their connections with those consulting companies.
Apurva,
Do everybody a favor and post the names of the managers. Time to clean up.
I cover Cisco for the Wall Street Journal. Anyone who wants to talk about employment issues there can reach me at ben.worthen@wsj.com.
Many managers directly and indirectly (family and friends name) have consulting agency that deals with cisco
These manager behave rude with red badge consultants, in case the consultant raise voice, their contract will be termiated immediate.
most of these consultants are in H1B visa
in the past 1.5 years, I’ve made several complain to Cisco HR and anonymous complain (1-800 number), I didn’t see any action to these corrupted managers and there is no change in their behaviour
partial list of corrupted managers:
[...removed by moderator...]
This is just a partial list, I can provide more managers but still it may not the complete list. the numbers will be more, I would say almost 99% (yes 99% of Indian managers in Cisco have connection to a consulting company getting personal benefit)
most of the reqs. are opened but they don’t add real value to the cisco, they just hire INDIAN consultant to maximize their comission
I have suggestion to reduct these corruption
The whole system in cisco IT should be audited and reviewed
Give some data, just complaining don;t mean anything..
i know cisco culture. contractors are treated same as employees, except for compensation…
also I forget to mention, I find some contractors already left the cisco, but the companies still charge cisco (with the manager’s blessings)
when a contractor gone for vacation (with loss of pay), there is no written notification to cisco only his manager knows this - companies charge to cisco in these period
#33: Ben, you are welcome to read this thread. All concerns are logged here.
apurva,
which cisco units are you referring to
I work for IT, so I am referring to IT. I don’t know about other groups
Database: See the unemployment rate in your California community or county. http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_11560702
When I searched the data base above for Cisco. I did not see any thing there. Looks like Cisco wants to hide this info from the public.
Indian workers and managers do not set Cisco corporate hiring, compensation and termination policy. They are straw men. Corporate policy as to who gets hired, terminated, promoted and paid what is set by senior executives and they by and large are White men. Keep in mind that the CEO of Cisco is a White man.
It was brought to my attention recently that Cisco (or any company for that matter) can get around the WARN notice by doing the following in order:
1. Have layoffs
2. Give the affected employees 60 days PAID by remaining on the payroll, but employees are asked to leave the company and given restricted access to the facilities. The actual layoff date is 60 days in the future.
3. Notify WARN of the “planned” layoffs.
4. Give additional severance , if appropriate.
So you see, they still notify WARN 60 days ahead of the actual layoff date.
All Infosys staff has been sent back to Bangalore. No Onsite placements for the foreseeable future. Rents are going to drop big time in the South Bay.
#41 Some major loopholes of the federal WARN Act are described here:
Record
No particular form of record is required. The information employers will use to determine whether, to whom, and when they must give notice is information that employers usually keep in ordinary business practices and in complying with other laws and regulations.
Penalties
An employer who violates the WARN provisions by ordering a plant closing or mass layoff without providing appropriate notice is liable to each aggrieved employee for an amount including back pay and benefits for the period of violation, up to 60 days. The employer’s liability may be reduced by such items as wages paid by the employer to the employee during the period of the violation and voluntary and unconditional payments made by the employer to the employee.
An employer who fails to provide notice as required to a unit of local government is subject to a civil penalty not to exceed $500 for each day of violation. This penalty may be avoided if the employer satisfies the liability to each aggrieved employee within 3 weeks after the closing or layoff is ordered by the employer.
Enforcement
Enforcement of WARN requirements is through the United States district courts. Workers, representatives of employees and units of local government may bring individual or class action suits. In any suit, the court, in its discretion, may allow the prevailing party a reasonable attorney’s fee as part of the costs. The Department of Labor, since it has no administrative or enforcement responsibility under WARN, cannot provide specific advice or guidance with respect to individual situations.
For employers forced to cut staff, a frightening trend is emerging: An alarming number of employees aren’t taking their dismissals lying down.
Experts have noted an increased number of employee-based lawsuits. Unprepared firms are finding themselves on the hook.
The majority of suits have either alleged discrimination (with age as the top reason), or violations of the federal Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification (WARN) Act, an act requiring 60 days’ advance notice for mass layoffs and closings. Other lawsuits from dismissed workers include FMLA disputes, the Fair Labor Standards Act, as well as overtime and wage issues.
In general most high tech workers are not aware of the WARN Act and that’s very good for the employer, and those that are aware are not eager to file a law suit or formal legal complaint just as they are not eager to file in age, race or gender bias cases. The folk wisdom is move on to the next job and not rock the boat because you might sour your job prospects.
I do not think most states are looking over the shoulders of the companies as to their layoff records and policies - state departments simply lack the power and authority, the labor and the money to do so in too many cases. The states and the Feds have shifted the burden of proof to YOU the employee.
The WARN Act is not activated when a covered employer:
* Closes a temporary facility or completes a temporary project, and the employees working in the facility or temporary project were hired with the clear understanding that their employment would end with the closing of the work facility or the completion of the project; or
* Closes a facility or operating unit because of a strike or a worker lock-out, and the closing is not intended to evade the purposes of the WARN Act.
The WARN Act also is not activated when the following coverage thresholds are unmet:
* If a plant closing or a mass layoff results in fewer than 50 workers losing their jobs at a single employment site;
* If 50-499 workers lose their jobs and that number is less than 33 per cent of the employer’s total, active workforce at a single employment site;
* If a layoff is for 6 months or less; or
* If work hours are not reduced 50 per cent in each month of any 6-month period.
There are three (3) exceptions to the full 60-day notice requirement, however, the notice must be provided as soon as practicable, even when these exceptions apply, and the employer must provide a statement of the reason for shortening the notice requirement in addition to fulfilling other notice information requirements. These three exceptions are:
* Faltering company: When, before a plant closing, a company is actively seeking capital or business and reasonably, in good faith, believes that advance notice would preclude its ability to obtain such capital or business, and this new capital or business would allow the employer to avoid or postpone the shutdown for a reasonable period;
* Unforeseeable business circumstances: When the closing or mass layoff is caused by business circumstances that were not reasonably foreseeable at the time that the 60-day notice would have been required (i.e. a business circumstance caused by some sudden, dramatic, and unexpected action(s) or condition(s) beyond the employer’s control, such as a major order’s unexpected cancellation, plant or office shut down, take over or closing by legal authorities (such as the U.S. Justice Department, the police or the IRS) or fire, human incident such as warfare, acts of mass terror and physical destruction, chemical or biohazards, water or smoke damage); or
* Natural disaster: When a plant closing or mass layoff is the direct result of a natural disaster such as a flood, an earthquake, a drought, a storm, a tidal wave, or the similar effects of nature. In such cases, notice may be given after the event.
#42: Infosys did exactly the same at Symbol Technologies (San Jose, CA) during the acquisition by Motorola (year 2006): they took most of the people from different groups back to India and replaced with a new ones when acquisition was completed.
It is widely known that Cisco made a trade agreement with the state of India to enter the Indian market. In exchange for entry Cisco like so many other Western companies agreed to retain, hire, contract and out source with India. These agreements are not limited to but includes labor, material, real property, equipment and services with the governments of India and Indian companies. With these agreements Cisco enjoys the right to do business in India. Labor under this agreement is just another commodity that can be imported and or exported with regards to contract and transnational law. In the end Cisco creates Cisco India with a labor pool trained here and there in the ways of Cisco culture and business. India gets the opportunity to raise its standard of living. Indians get new jobs both here and there and some of those job make new investments both here and in India
My neighbor (FTE) was recently laid off from Cisco. Job was sent to India but was supposed to transition to a new project. Never happened. According to them Cisco IS doing a LOT of mini layoffs of FTE (50-60 at a time) in exactly the manner described previously. 60 days notice during which you are still a Cisco employee but no job responsibilities (except to look for a new job in Cisco). They have done an AMAZING job of keeping these layoffs out of the public eye. Also according to my neighbor the very few jobs available in the US before the hiring freeze were reporting to an Indian manager in the US, who reports to an Indian Director in the US, who reports to an Indian VP in the US who reports to the American (aka white) CEO. Just guess where your career might be going in that setup. You can bet there will be more FTE layoffs in 2009. But you won’t hear about them unless they are forced to do a massive layoff to console shareholders.
This Jack Snyder guy looks like an Indian manager to me….I could smell the blood…
#42 infosys staff sending back to Banglore has no impact in South Bay rental market, hardly there will be 2k infosys staff working in california some of their clients are cancelling their accounts.
most of the infosys staff illegally share their apartment say 5-6 or more persons per 2br apartment. There are many other factors for South Bay rent decline