(Rumor) Oracle: Major layoffs are to come in January 2009
According to rumors from different sources: “There were several layoffs reported between November - December, 2008 in Oracle’s North America consulting unit. The reduction in force included 140 IT consultants specializing in Siebel, E-Business Suite, PeopleSoft, J.D. Edwards, and Hyperion products.”
Rumor: “A bunch of people were laid off from Oracle’s business units including utility and retail. Major layoffs are to come in Jan 2009″.
Rumor: “at least 2 people were laid off from PeopleSoft/Oracle unit with no warning.”
Rumor: “20% of the Education staff was let go”.
Update: According to Dow Jones and CNNMoney: “Oracle Corp.’s (NASDAQ: ORCL) fiscal second-quarter net income fell slightly, with the stronger dollar dragging on revenue and profitability.
Revenue for the quarter was lower than Wall Street expected, reflecting both the currency impact and weaker information-technology expenditure, but cost control and a strong flow of maintenance support revenue helped Oracle hit its quarterly earnings per share guidance.”
Update 2 (1-09-2009): According to rumors:
- SAP layoffs: “A source reports that SAP is making some deep cuts in SAP’s Strategic Growth Enterprise (SGE) unit (focused on the SMB space). A 300 sales-related positions were affected in North America.”
- Infor layoffs: A source reports that “Infor just laid off a staggering 85% of their senior managers and executives across UK and Europe.”
Update 3 (1-11-2009):
- India’s Oracle office in Bangalore lays off 40 people, according to The Time of India.
- Oracle India has an extensive network of more than 400 channel and alliance partners in India, which includes Infosys, Satyam, Sonata, Tata Consultancy Services and Wipro.
Update 4 (1-12-2009):
- Reports said that after the acquisition of i-Flex, Oracle was planning to lay off almost all employees of that company, though the decision was scrapped after intervention of Oracle’s management, as the layoff of all i-Flex employees could project a failure of the acquisition, according to rumor
Update 5 (1-13-2009):
- An anonymous report suggests that termination packages were sent out to folks on 1/9/2009 in the US.
- PCWorld mentioned LayoffBlog.com in their Oracle layoff-related article.
- ComputerWorld also mentioned LayoffBlog.com.
Update 6 (1-13-2009):
- Oracle cut around 500 positions in its North American sales and consulting businesses last Friday (January 9, 2009), according to WSJ and other sources.
- Investors had anticipated a larger scale of the job cuts thanks to the rumors last week that the company was aiming to eliminate thousands of its employees, according to Yahoo Finance
- Oracle employed 86,657 globally at the end of November.
Update 7 (7-2-2009):
~ LayOffBlog.com: Please feel free to comment this info and/or send us your updates regarding Oracle layoffs. ~
Oracle layoff updates/comments are also available via RSS
I heard from a high-level director that there will be roughly 1500 more “reductions” by mid-june. This person did not know specifics in terms of roles or groups. Stay positive people. We all have some of the most desired skills and training in the industry. We just might have to watch our budgets more closely and purchase items from the bottom shelves for a little while.
Check out this article. This could account for some of the push for this RIF/Reorg. Interesting timing, huh?
Oracle and IBM are cheating because they are allowed to do it. In a recent IBM Layoff, they “lied” to the employees and told them that they could find jobs within the company. They let people frustrate themselves to find jobs only to have them vetoed by an executive HR council that set up a catch 22 scheme. The way it worked is that they had the groups who had job openings search for 2 weeks inside IBM to make sure there was absolutley no one available except someone on the list. Then they made sure that the managers had to personally vouch for the person and state that “no one else” at IBM could do the work. On top of that, once they had submitted the person from the list, they had to post the job for 2 weeks before exacting a hire. Well, in order to get hired into a job at IBM you need to be interviewed by 3 different people. That takes a week, well the total of weeks is 5 to get through the process. Since the employees had only 4 weeks notice before being canned, not too many found a way out from in front of the squad. People need to band together, and start small companies of technical people to compete with the big boys, there’s so many out there, something needs to be done. Refuse to work for them, see if all the offshore bodies can really do the work. They mess up more projects and deals than can be counted. The US workers need to unite and join together. Those systems won’t run by themselves.
Late this afternoon, I got pretty good info, from a pretty good source - followed by independent verification. What I got was - 1000 people, effective tomorrow (04 June). No further details or info yet.
As on now
you were pretty right on. i know someone who was laid off this morning after nearly a decade with the consulting department.
Is this the last layoff this month, or are more coming?
Interesting article and could explain a portion of the push behind the reorg.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26337800/
Interesting to note that the company’s fiscal 2008 profit climbed 29 percent to a record $5.5 billion, while its stock price rose 18 percent to create about $19 billion in shareholder wealth.
The current rumor circulating is that many of the cuts won’t hit until the Sun thing goes through. That they can “whack” duplicate positions with Oracle dev ranks without freaking out app customers. They did this during the psft acquisition.
When exactly is this layoff going to happen and who is targeted? Is it the guys in US or the Indian counterparts
C’mon…please stop asking for exact answers to specific questions. I hate to break it to those of you who have filled this 20-page (so far) board with those questions, but “NO ONE KNOWS!!!!” No one knows if there will be layoffs or not. If there are layoffs, then no one knows when. No one knows which departments. No one knows which countries. NO ONE KNOWS.
Rumors, vague information, and guessing is what you can expect here. And there’s nothing wrong with that. But please take it for what its worth….NOTHING.
Hope you wont waste your useful time here, AGAIN !
What are you mad about?
Are there any layoffs in Orlando this week?
yes, Fatima’s friend will be fired
There is a bloodbath going on now in APAC!
I think to put an end to the IT lay offs we need to support Grassley-Durbin bill in the US Senate. In fact we should take it a step further such that companies should be only allowed to bring employee on H1/L1 up to 2% of there total workforce in USA. Only then can this carnage of employment be stopped.
Please write to the senators (http://durbin.senate.gov/record.cfm?id=271783) in support.
Why don’t we collect few hundred signatures and send to senators / white house / few newspapers / Lou Dobbs / etc?
Well there are couples of ways to go about it. All those people who are concerned should contact the each senator’s office and express the concern. Following steps may be followed:
1) Document your concerns. Explain why H1 and L1 visas should be limited to only 2% of the company’s total employees. And only companies with more than a specific number of fulltime (non visa employees) employees (lets say 25) should be allowed to sponsor H1 and L1.
2) Contact the senators.
3) Provide facts. Also mention about projects and companies who have abused these Visa’s. Example will be where number of H1/L1 employees is more than US employees.
I wont sign. I dont think H1/L1 is the issue. Issue is economy and all companies all over the world doing badly.
No Support on this. People please dont support such ‘weird’ ideas.
Ya sure you won’t sign. Lol! As we employ you; we recognize your Indian dialect of English. Yoy came here on a Visa.
Yes it is true that the economy is down but grant of L1 and H1 (even in this market) is not helping to solve the problem. From a distance, even in this market software is being developed and projects are being executed but on closer analysis either most of the work is being performed by remote resources (from other countries remotely) or being performed by H1 and L1 here in USA. Please take a closer look at the mix of current teams.
If we don’t support the bill by Grassley-Durbin bill in the US Senate (and actually help make it more restrictive and practical) then how will the problem be resolved?
Nobody is signing anything. Only those who agree in principle with the bill and understand the current situation may call and speak with the senator’s office to provide support (as explained in the message above).
Simple saying “bad economy” is a serious trivialization of the issue. Somehow I don’t see the magnitude of the failure similar to LB or GM or AIG anywhere else but in “ol’” USA. IMHO, the distraction of a major vehicle of “global economy”, middle class (75% of $14T from $43T) of USA is almost completed. Looks like Lenin was right about “rope and capitalism”.
Wasn’t it Carl Marx who was the author of ‘Capital’? Lenin was, imho, a too creative student. Too creative.
Here is Lenin’s quote:
“The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them.”
It seems that continued outsourcing H1 & L1 abuse (or overuse) in the current economic crisis is causing major long term damage to domestic growth.
It might be a good idea to support the bill being put forward by the senators.
I fully agree. Too many Visas at Oracle and too much un-American/undemocratic nepotism hires.
I will sign. I will also visit my senator. The jobs have to go to domestic talent first.
Given below is contacts for the Senators
http://grassley.senate.gov/contact.cfm
http://durbin.senate.gov/contact.cfm
Why is everybody getting so political on “layoffblog”? Instead of talking about the
layoffs that are going to happen this Thursday, June 4th?
Any layoff case at Oracle is about politics: this way or another. Sad reality.
Another Thrusday is comming, seems like fingres are crossed permanently.. Most visited websites these days of mine are Dice, Twitter and Layoffblog. Had my the most precious stuff packed just in case..
Its funny..why do you think you will not have consequences of Durblin-Grassley act. BRIC Countries will reciprocate in their own ways. - Defence Contracts restrictions, closure of access to worldest hottest consumer markets,etc.
One thing you should realize - capitalism and globalisation is a double edged sword. It always cuts both ways. So no more short sighted approaches like Durblin-Grassley act.
One final word: This is an Oracle layoff thread. People check out this thread about rumours on their impending layoffs. Any generic discussion should be welcomed in separate thread, not on this thread
Again, the causes of this “recession” are much more complicated, the ways to deal with and outcomes are still unknown.
I was one of the first 500 with Oracle “pink slip” in this year and I have as much rights to talk about that as anybody else on this thread, including your. And please, be careful with speaking on behalf of “all people” – we know some example of this type from the past.
Well, globalization gets defined only in free markets. Not sure how you define/spell “Globalization” when BRIC countries (you mention) have been reported to manipulate currencies and put restrictions around Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) and create hurdles when it comes to their own market access. Wondering how globalization will germinate between two parties with contrary intent.
Globalization means free trading of products and investment funds across countries. Please explain what is being sold and bought with H1 and L1 grants in this market.
Its sad to see that only example of globalization you gave was of defense contracts.
It so happens that defense is the only commodity the US has to offer to nation states. And wheat grown by heavily subsidized farmers in the US.
If Globalization were truely about free trade without restrictions put in place by nations then the US is the worst offender. It tries to bully weaker, developing states to provide access to their markets but heavily subsidizes its own farmers. that’s why the WTO talks are stalled by nations like India who have the markets the US needs but refuse to be bullied any more.
wake up and compete. if you can…
So what have people heard about the layoffs supposedly happening tomorrow?
Did anyone hear about any RIF on 29th May? In Aria, I don’t see one person from BI and another one from Application Sales. I dont know if they were let go or if they resigned.
This Friday, CRM Delivery might see 1 or 2 ppl less. Again, no idea if that is RIF or resignation.
I don’t think anyone else would be impacted this week.
None for this week. All rumors.
We’ll see. Within NA, words like ‘restructuring’ are being heard a lot. Maybe this week, maybe next, but not long.
If the law states that H1B employees cannot displace available Americans in large companies, how can Oracle lay off American consultants and keep H1B consultants? Isn’t that effectively displacing Americans with H1B holders? If an American is let go “without cause,” (ie, not for poor performance, embezzlement, etc.) while an H1B employee on his team is retained, wasn’t the wrong person selected for layoff in the eyes of the law, especially if the American was qualified, available, and willing to continue working? This has happened on my team. Has anyone pursued legal action on this?
As far as I know, H1B can not be _hired_ if there’s a qualified American available for the position. Once hired, it’s up to the business to decide whom to let go.
From your response I gather that all these H1/L1 are being issued because companies can’t find willing qualified workers in America. This somehow seems contrary to current job conditions and unemployment figures (as being reported in the news).
May be the proposed bill (Grassley-Durbin bill) needs to be further extended.
Anyone else have a surprise meeting with a manager tomorrow?
I’m having a first thing in the morning meeting with my manager. I know
of others , also. The ax is coming. oh well, it’s been a good run.
Yup - Me too.
I have an early morning meeting with my manager too. Not feeling too good.
In Michigan Sales Consulting, Others?
I have an early morning meeting with my manager, as well.
From what state are you?
Oh God! even i have heard about the same.
Oh God you too.
Amy news on layoffs today? I heard mid June and July. Good luck to everyone and don’t stress out.
Add another to early coffee with the boss
Add one more for coffee with the boss
Looks like i have a coffee break with my boss at 8:00am too.
Just had a meeting with my manager. I am no longer an employee of Oracle. Not sure how many others are affected but I heard it was all of NASA
NA SC are getting hit….
In NAS and NASA the SC organizations are very top heavy - with a tendency to cut individual contributors first. The past 3 RIFs had little to do with cost control (larry gave himself a big raise this year)- but rather a systematic reduction of perceived or potential trouble makers.
The dice was cast in 2006 when Oracle reclassified SC’s as hourly non-exempt. With that first formal separation, Oracle feared potential unionization - hence the overwhelming number of individual contributers with over 10 years of service (many in the same job role) who were cut in January. New developments such as “Card-Check” will make it too easy for employees to unionize. Oracle got rid of employees with a lof of seniority who aren’t on a management track - the ones most likely to benefit from union protection.
I have no idea where you are getting this information. I have heard of no union organizing activity among SCs in NATO, not even any rumors. Oracle switched SCs to hourly due to a law suit that was settled out of court. There is no requirement that a worker be hourly to join a union; teachers are unionized but are on salary. The people I know who were laid off in January actually had less seniority and were certainly not “troublemakers.”
There was never an active unionizing drive - especially in this down economy. However, Oracle may have been looking down the road to eliminate areas of future risk. Let go the people most likely to sign “yes” - especially if Card Check passes.
I meant ” Let H1 not …”
I was let go this week. In MA. I heard they let go of 10-15 additional Reps in NAS. I also hear that some may be replaced and some teams will have a reduction in head count. Oracle will also have more layoffs in the future.
I was let go on June 4th, 2009. It was strange because I have the best skills.
No sure why Oracle is doing layoffs?
Anybody knows?
Go to employment tribunal for unfair selection. You can get compensation.
Where is this employment tribunal you are talking about?
It’s where you go to complain that despite having the best skills, you were laid off. Move on……
i’d hazard a guess and say it is to save money? i’m not a rocket scientist though so i could be wrong
“i have the best skills” … and yet you got laid off? suggests you don’t.
it’s a cruel world.
That’s right. If you have “the best skills” why are you laid off? Looks like you do NOT have the best skills…
Do you have best skills?
At Oracle, skills might not have anything to do with being laid off…..possible you were not licking the right manager’s rear end.
If what you said is correct, choosing the “right” manager to lick his rear end is also a skill. If you have chosen the wrong manager and laid off, than you still do NOT have the best skills..
Don’t listen to them. I say, skills schmills. It’s possible to get laid off and be the best qualified.
I have seen dozen of people with the best skills laid off and others who are slackers remain employed. The manager makes the call and can decide if someone stays or go by ranking. The manager can also save someone if they decide to. It is 80% politics. I have seen the top people go through a reorg and have a new VP/manager and that VP brings in their own staff. Who do you think the VP is going to keep if they have a RIF? It’s not fair, but it is corp america. Most of the time you can’t choose the “right” manager.
80% politics in oracle. Oracle is the worst company to work for.
Oracle is the worst company to work for.
Was watching this thread for one of my friends. She was Peoplesoft branch, laid off this morning just as many predicted…
pls stop, my colleagues are worried and they have rates and big families. mercy with them !!!
Hey - can I make a request? if you are having that meeting with your boss, can you state your region, line of business and role? If you want to wait until after you get cut that is fine. Oracle doesn’t communicate, so all we have is rumor mil and this website.
I feel for everyone of you. I was told I was going to be cut in 2005, but alas, someone stepped in and saved me.
Its confirmed…. Major Layoff is happening today at Oracle…. 2 of my frnds got the axe…..had meeeting with manager at 8 AM EST….
20-30% this time.
Can anybody shred a light which Org. get affected? Looks like somebody pressed panic button.
That is WAY off. c’mon, quit scaring people. Maybe 5-10%.
I had morning meeting w/my boss. Also talked to a pillar rep who was let go.
I was laid off today. Sales Consulting, Chicago, Apps.
Layoffs in Professional Services, Utilities Global Business Unit
If you get laidoff, and post to this site, please state your Line of Business, region and position so we can understand where this thing is happening.
what is the package? i heard 2 weeks for every year and one month of cobra.
I was laid off this morning, OD HQ, along with a few others I could see before I
left the bldg. An entire BDC team was let go from Sandy, Utah including the mgr.
I’m a BDC in sandy and there is no word of layoffs in our group
The OD ASR team in Sandy was laid off today. Not the BDC team…so far.
OD HQ tech are having 20% layoff
Any developers laid off today?
shame i say
How do I know that I have been let go? I am out of the country for vacation
But, I still seem to have access to the network.
You would probably know by now. Management had a mandate to get the layoffs done as quickly as possible.
Oracle just had another large layoff today (6-4-2009). Don’t know how many people are affected.
I got a heads-up yesterday; total of about 1,000 RIF’d, across several US groups. As I understand it, all notifications are now done. So, if you didn’t have a meet or a call, odds are very good you are safe - as noted earlier in this thread, Oracle has quite a bit of practice doing this, and when it happens, it happens fast and smooth. Good luck to anyone ‘on the list’!
My package was 4 weeks of severance plus one week per year so if you were here for 2 years you’ll get 6 weeks severance. I’m still waiting for my fedex to arrive, but it will have 1 month paid COBRA also, per my manager.
The COBRA coverage will cover you for the rest of the current month. And you have to pay in advance (35% the premium - OBAMA’s new law pay 65%) before the month to maintain coverage. They do not send you invoices, or notifications. If you miss a payment you are out.
I think you are mistating the law here. COBRA is federally required and what you say above is incorrect. You have a period of time to enroll (60 days to enroll, I think) after which it is retroactive to your seperation date. And unless Oracle is doing something different with the separation package, you are not automatically covered to end of the month. Coverage ends at date of separation, after which you have to enroll in COBRA to get any coverage.
You only get free cobra 30 days and you have to sign up immediately. you pay 1/3rd - new stimulus pays 2/3rds. I had 12 years with Oracle and on the bench 4 days and got laid off today. South Carolina
Can I ask why the media has not been alerted? this is a big layoff and deserves as much
print as Microsoft’s or others.
Good point.
It could be that these are being done ‘for cause.’ In that case, it is not a RIF. And Oracle’s policy has been to pay severance even when terminating for cause. I know from previous reductions (even big ones) where every single reduction was justified as ‘for cause’.
Two middleware Reps in DC region were let go today
who?
both reps covered enterprise accounts
I was not terminated for cause. Reason given was downturn in the business. So why weren’t the indians who have been on the bench for months not let go instead of us 59+ age released?
??? Because most of the time they don’t blame other groups for their problems at job or other places …they try to fix their own…
Being RIF’d from Oracle sucks at the time, but you quickly feel better knowing that you are no longer Larry’s serf.
Life after Oracle is really good.
As further cost reductions are needed, Oracle will be moving HQ to lower cost quarters.
The best thing that ever happen to me. I was let go from Oracle middleware support got a job in 2 weeks for more $$$ and a better job. I never did like working for Oracle the pay sucked no bonus or pay raises everyone hated the job. Mgmt. just SUCKS a bunch of yes men if you want to call them that they love H1B India analyst if they could they would fire all Americans and hire H1B analyst.
I applied for a job internal at Oracle about 2 yrs ago when I applied for it. I was told by HR it was a fake job so they could get more H1B jobs.
My father laid off today, after a 7 AM PST meeting with his manager. This is after 18 years with Oracle. He was on the bench for a month prior to this.
So how is the package look like? I just wonder whether Oracle set a max. like 3 months for the package even you work for 20 years
why no news about all this ?
ANY ONE IN EMEA ! ???
I was a manager at oracle until the psft acquisition and had to hire people - I would have been delighted to hire citizens or green card holders - the base salary offered for these mostly entry level engg positions was 75K irrespective of citizenship. Honest to God, I was unable to find US Citizens, capable or not, at that time - every applicant was chinese, indian or european. And the reality is that most immigrants did actually work pretty hard, while over time people lost their inspiration etc. About Oracle layoffs - it has generally been a bloated company - how many people here think they were working 60 hours a week and let go - layoffs sometimes sharpen your edge if you can control your emotions. So move on.
I am a former BEA/Oracle employee, laid off during the very secretive April 15th work reduction. No notice, just one day to get everything in order and send in my hardware. I have heard from the former BEA consulting division that work reduction is occuring in North America for consulting. No idea how many, but this is traditionally a money making group. Scary that even these guys are being laid off.
Now 47 Days unemployed, good luck to you all!
Hang on there. Right now the job market is really bad, so it is not unusual for someone to spend a few months looking before getting a new job.
i was laid off on 4/15 too and haven’t found anything. its bad out there for new jobs; tons of different requirements are necessary for jobs with government. If you are qualified to get a top secret clearance which seems be many, you may want to look at those?? im not a citizen just resident alien so its even more difficult for me to find a replacement position.
Let’s not blame visas, outsourcing etc - all educated people should know, its still a very small number of jobs affected.
And on the other side, if you own stocks/funds in any of these companies, you should also know:
- For GM, demand from consumers across Asia will drive global car sales in the coming years, with the region accounting for 70% of the new global growth over the next decade.
- Coke’s one of the most profitable global markets is India.
- Citibank and Bank of America generate more profits in India than their global average.
- Reebok’s fastest growing market in the Asia Pacific is India.
- India is Motorola’s 3rd largest market.
- Retail food chain giants McDonald, KFC etc. are registering growth more than their global average.
- Agro-chemical giant ‘Monsanto’ is working on GM modified crops and fertilizers. It is also gaining huge popularity in the Forging sector.
- ‘Wal Mart’ the retail giant, in collaboration with Bharti enterprise sees huge opportunity in the retail sector.
Now, oracle laying off.. that’s a different story. What about Oracle’s quarterly profits/numbers, and the way it does business in general?
Thanks for the explanation. All examples you gave of US companies working in India are those in which these companies are helping expand Indian economy and generate employment (in India). Large percentage of the profits made from these operations is being reinvested within India. Hope you will agree that it is helping generate employment in India and expand its economy.
Outsourcing on jobs from USA and continued grant of H1/L1 visas seems to be having contrary effect of US economy. It would be short sighted to say that it is bolstering the companies profit as truly it is at the cost of the US workforce and its future. It is taking away jobs from competent willing workforce. Every employee layoff effects more than just the individual (and the family) rather it has a ripple effect on the economy as a whole. Worst, in the long run it might destroy US competitive edge.
While workers are being let go in USA these companies are outsourcing the work and this is having huge effect on our economy. Not sure why you are down playing Visas (H1 & L1) and outsourcing.
@Anon2: I think you missed the point. We can’t ask India to keep its markets open while we close the US services sector to them.
@ Original Anon: GM story in India is a joke - Hyundai sells more cars in India than GM. GM’s growth in India appears big since they are shrinking in all the other markets.
It seems that India allows those foreign companies access to the Indian market which help develop its economy and create jobs (in India). This access is also limited, for example Wal-Mart was not allowed to enter on its own instead it was made to take back seat and help setup Bhatri’s retail business. Not sure how you are comparing this with open markets.
Continues outsourcing and grant to Visa’s is not helping the unemployment (already very high) situation here in US. Pleas read thru Anon2 discussion.
Incorrect.
Don’t try to mislead us with fancy talk.
In this economy every single job should go to a U.S.citizen from an American University. All jobs. Even one is another American without a 75,000 dollar salary.
I got this information, Last one week atleast oracle layedoff 450 till now. I will update you all with latest in my next posting. In yahoo finance Oracle employee force numbers say over 85K it is not true any more is 74184 which is 11K less.
You have probably got this information from the internal people web site. It is well known that this website does not include folks from some Oracle subsidiaries and acquired companies. So there is nothing mysterious about this 11k discrepancy - it has been reported since January - please read the earlier posts in this forum.
But you are right, some people seem to have been laid off last week. You should know that the reduction in number will also include those who have voluntarily resigned so my guess is that it is less than 450, probably about 400.