(Rumor) Oracle: Major layoffs are to come in January 2009
According to rumors from different sources: “There were several layoffs reported between November - December, 2008 in Oracle’s North America consulting unit. The reduction in force included 140 IT consultants specializing in Siebel, E-Business Suite, PeopleSoft, J.D. Edwards, and Hyperion products.”
Rumor: “A bunch of people were laid off from Oracle’s business units including utility and retail. Major layoffs are to come in Jan 2009″.
Rumor: “at least 2 people were laid off from PeopleSoft/Oracle unit with no warning.”
Rumor: “20% of the Education staff was let go”.
Update: According to Dow Jones and CNNMoney: “Oracle Corp.’s (NASDAQ: ORCL) fiscal second-quarter net income fell slightly, with the stronger dollar dragging on revenue and profitability.
Revenue for the quarter was lower than Wall Street expected, reflecting both the currency impact and weaker information-technology expenditure, but cost control and a strong flow of maintenance support revenue helped Oracle hit its quarterly earnings per share guidance.”
Update 2 (1-09-2009): According to rumors:
- SAP layoffs: “A source reports that SAP is making some deep cuts in SAP’s Strategic Growth Enterprise (SGE) unit (focused on the SMB space). A 300 sales-related positions were affected in North America.”
- Infor layoffs: A source reports that “Infor just laid off a staggering 85% of their senior managers and executives across UK and Europe.”
Update 3 (1-11-2009):
- India’s Oracle office in Bangalore lays off 40 people, according to The Time of India.
- Oracle India has an extensive network of more than 400 channel and alliance partners in India, which includes Infosys, Satyam, Sonata, Tata Consultancy Services and Wipro.
Update 4 (1-12-2009):
- Reports said that after the acquisition of i-Flex, Oracle was planning to lay off almost all employees of that company, though the decision was scrapped after intervention of Oracle’s management, as the layoff of all i-Flex employees could project a failure of the acquisition, according to rumor
Update 5 (1-13-2009):
- An anonymous report suggests that termination packages were sent out to folks on 1/9/2009 in the US.
- PCWorld mentioned LayoffBlog.com in their Oracle layoff-related article.
- ComputerWorld also mentioned LayoffBlog.com.
Update 6 (1-13-2009):
- Oracle cut around 500 positions in its North American sales and consulting businesses last Friday (January 9, 2009), according to WSJ and other sources.
- Investors had anticipated a larger scale of the job cuts thanks to the rumors last week that the company was aiming to eliminate thousands of its employees, according to Yahoo Finance
- Oracle employed 86,657 globally at the end of November.
Update 7 (7-2-2009):
~ LayOffBlog.com: Please feel free to comment this info and/or send us your updates regarding Oracle layoffs. ~
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How about these characters NAC has called Solutions Architects. Nearly every one of them that i had met was clueless about the technology they were selling. Now can someone explain to me, how a solutions Architect who does not know the products just basic buzz words and has, understands Dinasour age technology and has interpersonal skills of a cricket, can translate the customers business needs into a product service offering utilizing Oracle technologies?
Well I just saw one come on the latest project I am on. I always thought these folks were technical.. But you know when Oracle continues to lay the top notch folks off and then they need someone and can’t find someone they just plug someone in there and present the individual to the client as an expert. I’m so over Oracle and the management bs..
Your handle kinda reminds me of Marc Horowitz
A law firm called United Employees Law Group recovered $14 million or so from Oracle. Most of the IT and computer people are entitled to overtime, they just dont know it!
That is right. I am currently looking for a contract and most of the open positions are for US Citizens or Green Card Holders.
The only problem is the rate. There are not many H1 positions but we still have some problems, the Indian companies based in NJ and PA are driving the margins down. I am blocking all emails from those companies.
Yes, there are 40K H1 petitions but there are rejects. Most of the bachelor degrees in India are 2, 3 years based and master with 1 year, not enough for a H1 visa. They enjoyed a free ride, but at least USCIS is doing something to prevent that. Computerworld has reported this and lawyers are trying to stop it. “U.S. steps up H-1B, green card assault with paper chase” http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9135552/U.S._steps_up_H_1B_green_card_assault_with_paper_chase
Great article. Thanks exOracle and Happy. I like the quote “recently learned that the job I now have is because a position became available due to non renewal of H-1B of the person who had the position before me.” RIGHT ON!
There are 2 separate issues here:
1. Low ball rates from Indian cold callers. Even in the very strong Independent market from 2002 to 2006, the vast majority (over 80%) of recruiters staffing Oracle projects were Indian H1. They have been, still are and always will be notorious for low balling rates. Why? Because there is and always will be a strong contingent where price is the overriding differentiator. But even in that market, I had no problem landing all of my projects at fair market rates from the other 20% (all American firms). In short, all of my clients deliberately chose paying a higher rate for the person they wanted (plus…I refuse to be marked down).
2. The market today is miserable but it has nothing to do with H1’s. When the mortgage meltdown happened in Sep ’08 and the subsequent failure of credit lending that followed, the money flow stopped. The US economy simply cannot function without credit. It ranks right up there with food and oxygen. So as long as people remain fearful and uncertain, they will not spend. If people won’t spend, the economy will continue to shrink until they do spend…H1’s or not.
Rest assured, there are jobs out there, both permanent and contract. Unfortunately, most salaries and rates are 20 and 30 percent lower respectively. Not because of H1’s driving rates down, but because hiring companies have lower income and have to tighten their belt just like us. In prior years, US contracting firms were happy to pay $90 + expenses for a couple of resources. Now, they will only pay for 1 resource, expect them to know and be as productive as 2 resources (2 for 1 sale) and the person must be local or wiling to foot the bill for travel expenses. But this is a sign of the times and soon shall pass. Just make sure you have a year’s worth of cash on hand, be willing to do perm or contract, be willing to travel and be willing to work extended hours. Hmmmm, sounds like life at Oracle.
If you want to understand the future of OC, all you need to do is look at the relative growth rates and margins. ORCL’s 2009 growth rate was 10%, Consulting growth was -1%. At the field level, OC has the lowest margin of anything that ORCL sells - why would you want to have more of your least profitable product?
I agree that H1 problem is not prevalent in current economic situation, but the problem is the L1 visa. This type of visa is easier to get and has been violated by many companies, including Oracle.
L1 visa was created to bring executives from other countries to work in USA for a short time without the hassle of H1.
The idea is the L1 visa holder should work at the office, it is not for consultants or to work at client sites. Most of the new positions that Oracle India placed in USA are L1’s. It is a big win-win situation for Oracle. Oracle continue paying India salaries to those L1 visa holders and paid expenses for the stay in USA.
I remember in March this year, Oracle India could not find all the resources so they asked NAC for help. I asked my manager if it was Ok to apply. She said “No, because the margin didn’t justify an NAC consulant.” The rate was 40-60 hourly.
Indian companies always find a way to break the laws, sometimes I browse the website immigrationvoice.org. Most of the members are H1 visa holders asking questions about immigration issues and H1 visa holders without a job looking for a new one. H1 visa holders without a job most leave the country, that is another violation.
Foul play in India’s Oracle office in Bangalore, to rpotect US managers jobs mostof the indian managers are demoted and the headcount is routed under US managers.
What??
I pity a manager who can’t write meaningful sentences. Sadly, that is true of many Oracle managers. I guess (I hope) it explains the “Ex” part.
wow. Seems to be the opposite in the US.
In the past few months about 20-30 people have been laid off in On Demand India. At the first OD All Hands after these layoffs, the OD India Ops Head said, when asked explicitly to comment on it, that there has been no “layoffs” as per his knowledge. A “couple” of people were asked to leave because they didn’t comply with the Oracle Ethics which has been found out in an audit. Ethics violation included sexual harassment. And as to why there has been no communication sent to all OD employees on this - because management wanted to “preserve the dignity” of the concerned persons.
Bulshitting at its very best. A perfect example of what sort of managers are “managing” Oracle right now. I don’t know about the other Oracle offices, but in India we have plenty like these - and they keep on recruiting more of their kind!!
wtf? Is it just because that guy couldn’t communicate well?
Sexual Harassment is illegal, If you are covering(allowing) you are considered a criminal.
I know Indian Law Enforcement is lax, but someone to admit they just let go off some ppl without reporting to women commission or Local PS
May be that was the “best” lie he could think of at that moment in front of 200 employees!
Illegal? Who would be bothered about that? Have you ever tried to file an FIR? Even the police try to dissuade you from doing so.
The Oracle Ethics Helpline would probably be the way to go for this character. However, as the post implies, I don’t think there has been any sexual harassment - it is a plain old lie.
I have lost my respect for the M* role - anyone with some self respect would not want to rub shoulders with them. Most of them are sock puppets, living in an bygone era.
That’s my point. Its a stupid lie, someone should sue that aho** for character assassination or any law.
Get some local media coverage HAHAHA.
The way Indian Managers get away, not much difference between a street labor and Oracle Manager.
Talk shit and get away.
Whatever the excuses i hear from these idiots, Its pathetic Fuc**** Slaves
Lawyers in a how-to video: as in how to avoid hiring an American
By Paul McNamara on Tue, 06/19/07 - 9:18am.
http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/16421
HI all…..am in a great confusion state….. am a .Net developer. but a strange thing happened with me is that i got recruited by oracle bangalore for retail applications. i am recruited for a particular project in .Net platform for one of the product of oracle retail and now finally after a month i got my offer with a significant hike. but am not sure whether to join oracle or not. I’m aware that oracle is biggest microsoft competitor and never work for .Net technology. now my doubt is that since i am a .Net resource and am not sure as to what will happen to me after this project? would i be laid off, as they dont have any more .Net project or they’ll re-skill me….or really they have anymore .Net projects??? please help as soon as possible….
Can’t say for sure of course, but given all that is going on and what I saw when I was there my guess, and it’s only a guess, is that the millisecond they don’t need you anymore you will be out of Oracle faster than s__t through a goose.
Oracle’s philosophy is to get involved in any project in which they can make money while not be liable for any actual obligation for delivery ( i.e. they will make no guarantees that what they build will work well or even at all). That would take some professional ethics and integrity.
But if they can get a contract putting on magic shows, they will hire a magician for as long as someone will pay for the show and then dump him the minute no one wants to see magic shows.
If Io were you I’d try to find work in a place where they might actually use .net long term
Good Luck
mini, u should be asking the same exact question to guys who recruited u at oracle. atleast they will tell u if they see u as .Net developer only or expect u to work on other project as well. And then u should figure out what u would like to do and see if it matches to job at Oracle. Dont worry about layoff too much. See to gain ur skillset and career growth. If I were u I would take up Oracle if the job responsibility matches what u want to do (also its better pay). Working in multi-national company gives a specific kind of exposure that wont come otherwise. Hope this helps.
ANYONE got laid off in Europe?
I disagree with king.Working in MNC doesnt add anything specific but working in Oracle (A product Company)
might help to move to other lines of product development(if you are lucky).U will have access to lot of knowledge base.Unfortunately, U might not find time/interest to pick it up unless u get the alarm bell. Have a
clear vision to develop your own career path at Oracle.if u are joining
in the junior role..Just do the job and get out of office.
More Layoffs in IDC
Where in IDC? Which Dept? Building? How many?
what bout europe! Brain dude you got any news ! people here forgot about layoffs, they just bitching on other issues …
Stay Tuned….RIFs coming soon at an Oracle Office Near You ! Opening 5th of August’2009
should big O be distributing annual bonuses instead?
We were told no bonuses and no raises this year. Because of bad economy. I’m not buying it. They are hiring college kids, spending money again, and Uncle Larry will probably give himself a huge raise, not to mention buying a larger boat. That’s where the raises and bonuses went. What a demotivator… No one is motivated to get stuff done anymore.
Is his news to you? you should be happy you still have a job. Youre worried about promotions or bonuses….
Why would anyone want to work for this f*cking Organization (NAC). What a sorry group of workers in NAC right now. They’re all sitting there like sitting ducks waiting to be hit by a bullet and playing russian roulette. They know it’s going to happen, any client who pulls the plug cause of budget on a project and you’re screwed. Nowhere to run. Advice to Oracle Consulting = look for a job elsewhere, you will probably get the same money (maybe a little less) and not have to travel and worry about losing your job everytime you roll off a project, the risk is not worth it. All of Oracle consulting employees should all walk off their projects and quit, Oracle does not care about them and will lay them off the first sign of bench no matter how good you are and your contributions you can shove up your Kaboos. Application sales doesnt even recommend this organization most of the time and present third parties which drives CSMs crazy. Stupid organization.
I would extend that to the whole company.
about the commercial consulting VP leaving? Sign of the times for CommConsulting I believe.
I am happy for what oracle (India) is doing. I got recruited to oracle from Symphony services & oracle offered huge pay to me. Its almost 100% hike. All my team mates are happy & oracle took entire fusion testing team from symphony.
Got a bonus, $15,600 ! come on boys, bring it on ….
if youre in consulting, use that bonus wisely and save it, You will need it to live on once they lay you off soon. And you cant find a gig because all of them are taken by the H1/L1 Makaks. Good Luck!
Is that your severance package?
Sounds like about right, I got the similar deal when i was laid off
Did anyone else apart from Jerk get any annual bonuses. If not, Some real Jerk has posted it on the thread.
Can anyone please reply if anyone got their annual bonus? It would definitely be a motivating factor in this economy. Thanks for replies.
Yes, I received a bonus but got it this year on 9/15 instead of 8/15 like the previous year. It was a little over half of what I received in 2008, but not bad considering my group has not done well.
Trolls are funny!!!!
I enjoy them too, I looked at them once everyday.
Thanks for all the love, guys.
I wonder, does anyone know why Oracle has two presidents?
If you think you are about to be “RIF”ed, look out for those early morning 1:1 on Wed. I noticed that those that I know or worked with that got chopped, they all got that 1:1 notice and chopped on a Wednesday.
I am having a 1:1 on wednesday , this week!
Which group?
which group? your ass….Oracle has been moving consulting to India for last 2 months, Aysin was asked to leave or let go. There wont be consulting. Look at what happened to BearingPoint. If you are still in consulting you are an idiot and are not up on current events
You’re my friend, start printing your C.V.
In a few weeks you’ll be saying it’s the best thing that ever happened to me.
Sorry that was supposed to be “You’re done my friend” rather than “You’re my friend”
what happened to your 1:1?
MY complete sales team got it!
What group?
another wed went by without being chopped.
My Old Director Called me a month ago and told me he got a good bonus.. today he called and told me they let him go.
Being Fed for the Kill. Enjoy the bonuses
There has to be enough money to pay the 550 million salary Ellison made this year. what does he care if on the backs of a few consultants.
It’s fairly certain that some current employees have received bonuses - maybe a substantial amount. If you have received a bonus, it’s probably a signal that Oracle needs you - maybe for the next 6 months.
For the rest of us, it is time to polish our resumes and pack up.
What level of staff gets annual bonus? That must be management as consultants get bonus’ on a quarterly basis.
This one person is a principal dev…
Another wed went by without being chopped. still waiting for that 6-weeks “bonus”
It’s coming, though. My boss has stopped communicating with me. it’s the ominous sign of something is coming, and he doesn’t want to leak it accidentally.
If you are in consulting, and youre on the bench, I would start looking for a new job elsewhere.
got my bonus: less than half of last year’s. yes, i got a 5 on my review. thanks larry! enjoy the boat!
I love the ‘fed before killed’ comment. I worked for a company that for Christmas 2006 (in addition to bonuses) gave every employee an iPod (a shuffle though) - they laid off 20% of the workforce on the following Monday. Most senior execs are f-ed up in their head - why would you do something like that?
Has anyone heard of layoff rumors in their US East Coast Sales?
Yes I have. On the CRM team and the rumors have been getting stronger.
Monday August 31st - today is the day for layoffs - they have already started
I did not hear about any layoff
Just take note of a Consulting Project Director, Scott Lockridge. To save himself, he caused a consultant to be laid off by calling the poor consultant’s manager and bad-mouthing. Cheap technique! Besides his low tactics, this PM is the real bad deal. He was our PM in Office Depot–talked a lot and held a 5-hour meeting of emptiness and insignificance; still into Excel because he doesn’t know how to use any PM tools; very discriminating too! Clients don’t like him either. Wonder why Oracle management keeps him and why consultants’ managers listen to this backbiting snake. So fake! He surely gives Oracle a bad rep.
Cause Scott and Other Consulting PMs and Directors have nowhere to go if they get laid off, Who Needs Them? If he gets laid off he will be sitting at home for next 2 years at least like similar useless consulting managers, pm’s and directors….
oracle keeps managers like this because that is the characteristics that oracle can survive with. Each area whether it be consulting sales or support has a Scott!!! they are puppets that run under the mike daniels, tim tarkington thinks he’s real swanky), the susan ames (she’s a bipolar nutcase btw and uses fear tactics to scare her staff), and the whomevers of Oracle that have titles such as DIRECTOR OR ABOVE next to them. they are complete idiots that do not do anything except torment, torture, and expect ridiculous expectations. They are also evil, not-honest, and will back-stabb you in a heartbeat to save their butt because they know THEY WON’T GO ANYWHERE after Oracle - no one will tolerate their crap!
Oracle is gonna go down, mark my word! this BS Larry is trying to build is going to go crumble down to nothing! You can’t run a company with stressed out worker bee’s and a-hole Management for very long before it SNAPS!
I would boycott any future customer of my to ever use Oracle for the simple reason that THERE WILL BE SOMETHING BETTER BY SOMEONE ELSE AND THEY WON’T SELL THEIR SOUL TO THE fat-lipped Ellison!
Can you tell i hate ORacle - I DO! they are inhuman jack-a&^ to the tee!
LOL Shi! There are of course some managers that are decent people but get driven into the ground by the culture. Too bad, they could be much happier somewhere else. On the whole it is a pretty accurate assessment of many.
Please oh please oh please oh please - can I get laid off this week? I’m an underpaid consultant who could use a nice bonus, and I already have 3 offers lined up.
Did you get your wish?
So what do you think will happen to all those Sun employees when O takes over
Most of them will go home with no (or minimal) severance package, I guess. O has it’s own tons of fat to cut.
For sure they will have a better severance package than Oracle employee, just like People, Siebel, etc.
some of them.
I’m a Sun Employee, just waiting for the acquisition to complete and the ax to fall… expect a lot of us to get notice soon after the deal is done, and expect to have to show up at work until Last Day, rather than be able to hunt for a job…
I work for JAVA. What are the Oracle people hearing about layoffs once the deal is complete?
If you work for Sun you better have your resume updated and actively interviewing…you are on the chopping block. That way Larry will be able to buy his bigger yatcht and airplane this year…
Seriously, I worked for Oracle and believe me there will not be one ounce of loyalty to you. If you are at Sun, you are the walking dead.
Just what we’re all thinkin’ here. Do you they ax you right away or is there torture first? Is anyone happy there - other than the top 10?
I remember I saw Larry mention more than 10,000 employee will get layoff after the merge. Google it and you may find the article.
If you are obviously better than your Oracle counterpart, guess who is the
walking dead.
Dream on. Just ask the guys at BEA, Hyperion, etc. who were better than their Oracle counterparts and got laid off. The only skill you will need to excel at will how far can you stick your nose up your bosses behind…
I couldnt agree with you more. The more talented people that didnt kiss ass were shown the door way before the kiss assess were. Made no sense to me
So the speculation should be more than 50% of Sun staff will shown the door?
30 to 40 % Sun and 10-20 % oracle
that wouldn’t be so bad. I’ll take my package.
Everyone seems to believe there are 20K JAVA employees… at the moment, there are around 27950 FT employees (about 2K fewer than when the deal was announced in April)… the attrition is slow and steady, the backfill negligible… in any case, we are most definitely Dead Company Walking… want proof?… come on over to the Menlo Park main campus and watch the tumbleweeds blow through… it’s your mess now, Larry… have fun!
Is there any lay off coming in Oracle Washington D.C employee?
i’ve heard of only two people in the area that are having one-on-one meetings with their managers on Sept 1 (target day for payday) its either on a the 15th or 1st your laid off it seems….
So who knows - i’m sure there is another onslaught of poor souls that will get the ax - little do they know its the best thing that will ever happen to them
freedom from the freakish Oracle way and the constant worry and stress will be GONE!!
I agree with you on constant worry and stress part. Glad mine was over couple of months ago
yes
Hey there.
I’m part of Sun and we’re about to get merged in with oracle. I suspect in our division that our chances of staying at ORCL are pretty slim. Anyone there that has survived an acquisition by ORCL? I’ve heard that on acquisition day they will send you one of three letters:
1. You’re fired
2. You’re fired after the transition of your work. Leave before then you don’t get a package.
3. Welcome to Oracle! We reserve the right to adjust your salary, re-interview you for your own job, etc.
Can anyone confirm that this will be how it happens? Our mgmt has been pretty coy about layoffs, my manager has specifically stated that he has not been given the order to RIF anyone immediately…. but I’m wondering if that’s because he doesnt, and ORCL will just send us all letters?
‘Coy’ is one way to put it… ‘totally not forthcoming and stonewalling’ is another way, and more indicative of the total lack of information we’ve been getting in our BU… completely irresponsible behavior on the part of management, all the way up to our execs. Our once great company deserves everything it gets — the hardworking employees that are being shafted do not.
The reality is that no one knows anything, certainly not a first or second level manager or even a lower level VP. ORCL is run by a few hundred people in 500OP - they are for the most part faceless people who operate behind generic e-mail accounts. No one knows anything except those folks, and they ain’t talking or posting on here.
What happens in case EU does not give a GO on Sept3? Sun will lay off in that case?
What is the severance if laid after deal closes is it from Sun or Oracle?
I believe Sun has a better severance package than Oracle?
Any guesses?
In my case we were covered under the acquired company policy for an entire year after the acquisition date. So, I’d bet that you’d be covered under the Sun policies.
Usually, like when Oracle took over PSFT, upper level managers were asked to rank employees. The bottom rank and file were the ones who got the letters saying their services were no longer needed. But all of us, did not know up until that fateful Saturday morning until UPS delivered our letters whether we had a job or not. There was no indication whatsoever. So everyone got a letter. What it said inside was 1. Oracle is pleased to offer you x position, or 2. Oracle no longer needs your services, or 3. You are needed until X date. That’s at least what I heard from my friends who received letters 2 and 3. My manager did not even know until that Monday who was let go. When those people did not come in, she was quite amazed that they got rid of them without her knowing. Like I said, it was made high up the totem pole. If you had any sort of agreement from your company before the takeover as far as severance, Oracle will honor that. Otherwise you get the standard package, which I am hearing is 1 week for every year worked. Best of luck.
Even though Oracle has assimilated a large number of software and tech companies, they are lousy at it. There is some much bureaucratic stuff they assume you will learn on your own. You will need to upgrade your hard drive to store all the intranet links you will need to acquaint yourself with. And don’t expect your soon to be new boss will have the answers he’s more clueless than the transition team, who btw will do as little as possible to assist you. Other than that its wonderful…
got laid off from oracle last week= does anybody know if there were others?
Where? What state are you from?
What kind of package structure did you get? I don’t mean to ask for specific number you got, but is it like 2 weeks + 1 week/(year you stay with Oracle) kind of deal?
Yes - two weeks plus one week for every year.
One thing about being on the bench is that you have a lot of time on your hand. Between updating resume and brushing up all those java skills, I found a little time to research my MLB fantasy teams. As I was juggling my lineup and try to find replacement from the free-agent lists, saying to myself “nah.. this guy is done, he pull his groin last week.. fck him, let me pick someone else from the wire”. Then I realized, shite, I am in the same situation. Talk about irony. Absolutely no human investment. I guess everyone of you already know this, Oracle is about “can we use him next week? no? fck him”
A lot have been on the bench since July but still being kept–the lucky ones?
I just had dinner with a Sr. Manager for Oracle Support in Orlando Fl. Told me a Big Layoff is comming in Oct 2009 before xmas in support will effect Orlando could be up to 5% Good Luck!!!
Guys, just pack up and get the hell out of Oracle. It’s really not worth the frustration…
I am back in business after taking a nice 4 month break. I didn’t even touch my severance, unemploylent pretty much took care of my bills since I had been below my means.
It was nice to take a 4 month vacation, kicking back and playing video games. I had so many job calls and interview requests, I had to take my time to find the best deal and be picky. If you have any skills in high demand, you will find a job within a couple of months, despite the recession.
I recommend going for government contracts (or government jobs) since they give priority to the people on unemployment if you apply through your local unemployment benefits job search sites. There is job security, pretty decent pay, good benefits and none of the BS like that at Oracle. There is always work to do, and plenty at that. Your boss will be a group of government officials, not some spoiled rich prick with 500 million salary. You won’t have to spend half of your energy trying to justify your presence/headcount, looking for work at your workplace since no one is giving you any projects, and you can actually be productive with all this BS removed from the equation. People leave only when they retire or resign, there is only happy talk at the lunch breaks, not depressing layoff talk.
Or start your own business with a few collegues using your severance. Whichever makes you happy.
Just do yourselves a favor and get your arses out there to line up some job offers so you can sit back and relax while waiting for your wait for your severance check.
They say a big re-org is coming from the highest levels, anyone hear what’s about?
That’s the sound of Sun going bankrupt before the EU makes up its mind…
What is occuring, or has occured in the operations at Oracle, Orlando, Florida (all departments). Would appreciate some insight.
Where is Concerned Fatima?
you’ll be the next…
Does anybody heard of any layoff coming to D.C Oracle business people?
With the economy improving, I think Oracle might ease off from pressing that layoff button
Maybe, But the job market is not improving. So As for Consulting, there arent any projects and will not be much until maybe next year or later.
You are right about the economy improving, but not at Oracle:
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2009/09/16/business/business-uk-oracle.html
Better start the search before the crud joins you.
Good article. Very accurate assessment with market reality. Q1 Oracle software sales missed the mark by 17%. I have been contracting for 8 years (was with Oracle for 7 years before that). I have never experienced a market as bad as we are in now. The article is right, companies are not investing in technology. They are not signing PO’s. Many reputable consulting firms are continuing to layoff technology consultants, thus increasing the supply of highly skilled available resources. The Big 4, Oracle and IBM have all had substantial layoffs. BearingPoint filed bankruptcy last March for NA operations and of course is not hiring in NA. As a result of the increased resource supply and decreased client demand. contract rates are down 40% and generally do not cover expenses. For example, my standard rate for 5 of the last 8 years has been $100/hr + expenses. Many companies want an all inclusive rate so that they do not have the expense administration headache. The industry rule of thumb for all inclusive rates is $30/hr on top of the rate (i.e. $130/hr in my case). The current “typical” rate expectation of customers is $65 all inclusive; exactly half. Most contractors cannot afford to do business at this rate unless the project is local. Even so, the rate is so low and there are so many contractors out of work that highly experienced professionals (15-20 years) now have to compete for this low rate which drives the price down and the skills expectation up even more. Permanent employment salaries are down 20%-25% and usually do not include a bonus. Relocation is almost never paid. A very small percentage of companies may offer relocation “assistance” but this is rare and is very nominal ($4K on average). My advise: Save as much money as you can, be prepared to accept lower rates, longer local commutes and extended payment terms (30 days) for at least a year or so. Eventually, the market will improve. For now, be patient and frugal.
Excellent response. I hear the same thing in the SAP world.
http://www.cio.com/article/502887/Oracle_to_Ramp_Up_Cost_Cutting_According_to_SEC_Filing
Brace yourselves people!
Hey, has everybody been laid off??? No postings for 7 days??? Is this the so called “Calm before the Storm”?
Yeah, Heard some sales folks got riffed today. Don’t know which region.
I guess most of the layoffs are waiting for EU to approve the Sun merger … the big one will come then.
Oracle Belgium has some departures : 10+ in September. LOB : Tech Consulting, App Consulting, SOA Consulting
Anyone have news of NA rifs?
Who cares about NA, Asia rule the world now…..NA is now insignificant these days and there will be many many rifs there as the business and growth no longer comes from NA…..
you are being presumptuous and rather rude.
He is just trying to irk anyone, and you fell for it!
I have given an edict to commercial apps. Sell or be gone. Watch for heads to roll if they don’t close shit this quarter. I am getting sick and tired of all this slacking.
YES - you have already made them roll you troll!!!
So next layoff’s are November! so if your being tracked and monitored by your manager - expect your butt to outt!
by”keith block”" you still shagging susan the “relationship” vp?
Does anybody heard of any layoff coming at the IT consulting department in Washington D.C?
Can anyone beat this news ! One of the Oracle certified partners that I spoke to told me that there were openings in Salesforce and Oracle has instructed this partner not to entertain any resumes of Oracle ex employees if these employees had left or been laid of from Oracle in the past 24 months !
Isnt this illegal ? Just a clear indication that management want their cronies on the projects forever.
hey, heard that, too, but within Oracle. An ex-Oracle would be told that the position has been filled, or that it’s not a match, or that they’ll take a look, or whatever alibi, but really, once laid off, it’ll be made sure that there’s no hiring back. It’s their loss if it was the good employee laid off and the ‘not good’ is the one retained.
It would be a loss for the oracle-partner not to take a good employee because Oracle said so. if they make wrong decisions, they perish.
However bad the market is, the shocking thing is that there are several of the manager ‘pet’ consultants who are protected forever. They are billable for few weeks in a quarter but escape all the layoffs. These consultants have been given the title of ‘premier consultants’ who are supposedly instrumental in getting business. They just go for pre-sales presentations but I have never heard that they have bagged a single assignment and a manager I know thinks these consultants should not ‘waste’ their skills getting involved in real implementations. What a waste of consulting resources ! And there are other junior consultants slogging their ass out and being held accountable for every non billable hour. Nobody seems tobe interested in pulling out the utilitization reports to even notice all this crap. Managers get away with all this nonsense since everyone is on the field and nobody really knows what other employees are doing or being given royal treatment.I think every consultant’s performance should be quantified based on actual number of dollars he/she brings in, not by some unquantitified perception of “key person” or “premium consultant”
DON’T SAY I DIDN’T WARN YOU - LAYOFF’S ARE COMING! REALLLLLLLSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!!!
Your warning is inconsequential.
is Oracle the only company left in the consulting area? who knows Oracle? is this a real company or a club?
i heard a rumour that the consulting division will no longer exist since it is the least profitable. does this mean that all consulting employees will be laid off?
OC is the lowest margin division of the company - why would anyone want to sell MORE of their least profitable product? Non-GAAP operating margins for the company were 46% in Q1 - I bet consulting margins were half that. Support margins are in the 90’s, license margins are probably in the 40’s or a little better. Q1 2010 consulting revenues were down 23% year over year. So by getting rid of 23% of consulting revenue year over year, overall company margins go UP!
BTW - Education was down 34% and On Demand was down 8% - could they go down the same path as OC?
All these numbers from the 9/16 earnings release.
O Fmr, going by what you said, it would make sense to dissolve OC and convert OC into a support group, pretty much similar to where SAP is headed. I have a lot of SAP friends who moved from the consulting division into the support team and feel its a win win situation for both the client and SAP as major revenues are coming from support. This will get rid of all the overhead associated with retaining Practice Directors, Consulting Managers, PMs and what not. Clients dont pay hefty expenses for consultants, they get support round the clock and feel more comfortable, getting their employees up to speed.
Is Larry listening?
hahaha. Keep Dreaming. No ones listening to you. Just move on and look elsewhere is your better shot or try to transfer to support. Support Technical Analyst highest level makes 30 - 40% less then a Principal consultant. Good Night and Sweet Dreams and No one needs you just go somewhere else….
Mr Fake Larry, why are you on this board ????? If you are the real Laurence, hope you have better things to do ! ha ha ha
I have a neighbor who is in consulting department, and I don’t think that he thinks there’s gonna be layoff coming because he always have party at his house, and did not care about saving his money…
I am currently finishing up a book called ‘Snakes’. The story centers around my experience working for a Indian consulting director in the FMW practice. Keep out for a watch for this title on Amazon in the next couple of months.
Wow! FMW practice, I would love to know who this is you are referring to and actually who you are, I dont know work for Oracle anymore but im very interested. Please do mention his or her name…..
Wait for the book to come out ! I cant let the cat out of the bag so soon.
Here’s some clues:
- It’s a he, not she.
- His lips are slightly twisted on one side
- His smile is very charismatic - or so he feels. He hardly talks when visiting a client, just puts up his ‘Buddha’ smile to cast magic.
- 50% of his projects fail - he is good at passing the buck to other teams, especially the EBS group which he tried to bring under his control.
- He is fond of Indians, especially from the south.
- He is a PM’s puppet.
- His projects run so well that one client kicked out the entire team on a two day notice !
- If he does not like you, he will invite the entire team (except you) for a team lunch/dinner!
A lot of layoffs happened today
What group? Where? How many people? Anyone in sales?
Where did the layoffs happen?which division?how many?
I dont think layoffs happened. It may be a rumor or somebody checking if it really happened
ha ha ha
Were there lay offs at Washington D.C. area, consulting department?
sales, consulting..I heard will go on till Nov
Do any oracle employees follow this blog any more? I am an ex but I come here to check on the latest news about fellow consultants. All I see is set of rumors and some other venting their frustrations. Can some one confirm this news? Until then this statement seems pretty much baseless.
One of the consulting directors from FMW was let go yesterday.
What is FMW?
Oracles layoffs havent been big since June…..bunch of people here and there especially in consulting. If youre on the bench for a month or more, youre pretty much Gone and the bad thing is theres not many places to go. Laid off hush hush nothing major. But it looks like the big Announced Rifs are really coming soon to an Oracle Office near you…..Good Luck……….Anyone in Consulting should be looking for other opportunities while their still employed. It does not appear that this organization will survive this economic massacre. Talent is too cheap right now out there for Consulting to survive.
Thanks to the cheap online training institutes that have sprung up, one can now get 40 hours of Oracle sought after training (Siebel, SOA etc) for less than $600. The courses are conducted by working professionals from India over skype and webex. Not only is this a big blow to Oracle Education but to OC as well, as these training is churning out lots of professionals who are ‘faking’ their resumes and offer stiff competition to the Oracle consultants. Not that they are any worse than the Oracle consultants, since for the most part, managers now prefer to hire professionals on H1B, pay them low salaries and get them trained on the job. Usually, there is one scapegoat in the team who is an expert and who is entrusted with training his team members. Knowledge sharing is what they call it. With all this happening, which client in the right mind would pay premium rates for Oracle Consultants when their experience is no better than the cheaper job seekers on the street !!!!!!!! Cost cutting has prevented hiring of skilled professionals into OC. How many consultants in OC know what they are talking about?
Heard a rumor that a major layoff is coming affecting senior management. Good luck, directors and managers !
The layoffs were rumoured to happen in OC. PMs were going to be hit, not sure if it happened. I dont understand the logic of getting rid of sales guys when they play a key role in getting more business. It is consulting directors who need to go first, considering they add the least value. Their role is kind of redundant with the Resource Analysts and even then they do such a sloppy job. Their only goal is to get a consultant billable- does not matter if the skills match with the requirement. They are least bothered about where the project fails or succeeds and are never involved. It will take the client a few months to realize that something has gone wrong and by that time, OC has got in some money. A rolling stone gathers no moss. Thats how they survive - keeping the momentum on, success or failure does not matter. Now if someone blames the manager, they can pass the buck to the consultant or to a different group in OC. If somebody approaches them to define strategy, they ask one of their smart consultants to write a strategy doc and do a post man’s job of passing to their seniors. PMs who merely perform admin tasks. Cant they not replace the PMs by less expensive admin staff? I have not seen a single PM in Oracle so far, so really knows what is going on at the client site. Its the consultants who run the whole show. If anyone heard Larry’s speech on how he built his empire, how he handpicked employees to ensure they are the best in the country. There is just a big change now. Probably, Oracle has grown too big for people to have control. OC is probably the worst division.
I filed a complaint with EEOC today related to Oracle partner policies not to hire Oracle ex employees for 24 months. EEOC is very strict about hiring and firing policies, I hear. I should have probably approached them at the time I was laid off, but I had already signed the severence agreement by then, so even if EEOC pursued my case, I could not have taken legal action. If you are part of an unjust layoff, your best bet would be to hold off signing the severance agreement, file your case with EEOC. The best thing is that EEOC if it finds any wrong doing will hire legal attorneys to pursue your case at no cost to you. You can go to the EEOC website to get more details.
Beware of this PM Mohammed Memon - all sweet talk, no action and stabs behind the back.