Microsoft to Layoff Some H-1B Holders
In wake of impending layoffs, Microsoft has released a preliminary response to a U.S. Senator who wants the software giant to cut non-citizens first.
Microsoft’s answer states that it will indeed layoff a significant number of H-1B temporary work visa holders but that their visiting worker status will not be the primary criterion when it comes to deciding who will stay and who will go.
Microsoft officials said they will respond to Senator Grassley’s request for a direct response. However, while the company’s initial response is polite, it doesn’t say it will meet Grassley’s request.
Source: internetnews.com
You sound like an old fart “baby boomer”. A 50+ year old engineer who is technically thoroughly incompetent against the younger skilled H1-B coming in. A wimp who couldn’t make it beyond basic engineering in your organization, is at the lowest rung of the ladder, grown only in years!
A grumpy old loser who whines all day long about how H1-B come and steal jobs, which you are incapable of holding on to in the first place.
You are going after a handful of skilled immigrants. Why don’t you go after jobless losers with foreclosed homes instead who have screwed this economy up completely? But no, you want to be bailed out on the tax money of H1-B, don’t you?
Instead sitting on your ass, get up and do some reality checks. The reality is that incompetent folks like you were laid off because you were among the lowest performers in your company - the bottom brass. What has that to do with H1-B? If they come in with fraud resumes and are low performers, they will also get kicked out along with you. Don’t have any illusions on that front.
One day, due to losers like you, all the jobs will fly out of this country.
This is a shame to see people like ‘greendoc’ saying things like that. That is how people get burned alive or wake up with the balls on their mouth.
Going to the real subject. This H1-B issue is not about having so called Skilled immigrants to get jobs here. This is about getting CHEAP Labor to replace and lower the wages of the American People. This is not about finding more skilled profesionals out of our country when it’s actually full of overqualified applicants, this is about getting cheap labor.
The reality is that companies like Microsoft do this all the time they either either disqualified you because there is a nitch technology learnable in a week that you don’t have or you are overqualify really meaning they don’t want to pay what you are worth.
As I see in so many projects and so many times CHEAP Labor leads to poor quality. As you have heard: You get what pay for. This is the same reality here.
I personally have seen how more than disqualify foreign people that are working in Microsoft, people that do not know any or the technology nor have experience with their tools or methodologies and still are preffered from the american worker with the actual relevant experience.
This proccess even includes even fake interviews to the sole purpose to disqualify you by some non-relevant reason. I seen excuses like not explaining the details of a position held 5 years ago.
Now playing with their rules. Most probably the best way to get an actual job is to be fully qualified with their job description in every aspect and then lie about your salary with a low entry level salary or something similar in order to don’t be overqualified. If you do this the can’t legally cut you out although is not a garantee.
If it does not work probably you can also change your name to something like “Rajesh Kapur”, this might make you more attractive to HR and do phone interviews with an accent that migth help in order to replace your old job with yourself at a CHEAP Labor price.
It might be funny but the worst part is that this strategy of moving jobs demage the economic cycle at a macro level where the american without jobs can’t expend money on their own country making the country prospect as a whole.
Well good luck for all those “overqualified” American workers.
Now things are even worst where they are no longer hiring Industry talent rather now they are only looking for college hires.
Probably I’ll be going back to college in order to get a job where I’m obviously so overqualified.
Good to get rid of these people that stink to high heaven. The first comment must be from one of the people that make everyone around them puke. At Cisco, there were 2 sides of the building, Hi-B’s on one side where the green cloud of smell was all the time, to the clean smelling breath of fresh air on the other.
In theory H1-B was created to allow for filling positions in the rapidly growing high tech industry that couldn’t otherwise be filled by US citizens. It was NOT created to provide new opportunities for immigration (though that is a side-effect) and was NOT created to provide a way for companies to hire lower cost labor (though it was used that way in many cases).
So, if a company is faced with having to reduce staff and there are two otherwise equivalently skilled/talented workers, one that is H1-B and one that isn’t, then the H1-B worker should go first since a skilled worker still exists to fill the remaining position. If you don’t follow that logic then you don’t understand the purpose/intent of H1-B.
Greendoc, your comments are racist and ageist… you lump all older, US workers into buckets such as “wimps, incompetents, losers” while you refer to H1-B immigrant workers as “skilled.” Open your eyes and your mind and realize there are very skilled workers and very incompetent workers on both sides, you jackass.
You knew the nature of H1-B when you came here to work. If you want the rules changed, then lobby your boss and your congressman to change things, or go back home and start a company that outsources jobs from the US and get your hate for the US and its citizens out that way.
[...] 5 (1-28-2009): Microsoft to layoff some H1B visa holders Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Microsoft’s cutting jobsMicrosoft to Cut Up [...]
Please dont blame individuals, we cannot be ignorant of the fact that the corporations are scamming all the middle class people on both sides of continent. Indian Outsourcing company Satyam acknowledged that it took money from clients for employees who did not exist. This is common for all companies; Accenture, Wipro, Infosys, IBM… I heard consulting companies bills for programs twice by renaming them when done offshore. So, where does all this extra money go?
Greendoc,
The only thing that exceeds your arrogance is your ignorance. People like you are a toxic burden to this nation and it’s many hard-working, skilled, and motivated workers, regardless of age. I would imagine your coworkers, if you have any, would have some interesting feedback about you. Incidently, Greendoc, ” The lady doth protest too much, methinks”…. Could it be that you’re concerned over your own HB-1????
I have a lot of experoence working with, and interviewing, H1-B’s. They tend to be poorly educated, have subpar skills, and little working experience. H1B’s are hired primarily because they earn 25-30% less, and can not easily change jobs.
@7: Oh, c’mmn! Give me a break
send him comments at
http://grassley.senate.gov/contact.cfm
Indian Institutes of Technology (IITs) produces more technocrats than any Western university because India invests little labor, money, time, facilities and energy into a liberal arts education. Their graduates are the wet dreams of most Americans CEOs. So if you wanna do research and write white papers go to MIT but if you wanna work go to ITT.
#10, Jack: I agree 100%; But today’s economy does not need millions of code monkeys and thousands of “wet” local C-level junk. I believe that the times are gone where a person with Masters in medieval history could become CEO and take the huge company almost down to tubes.
Cooks, drivers sent to US as engineers
G S Vasu & Vikram SharmaFirst Published : 23 Jan 2009 01:48:00 AM ISTLast Updated : 23 Jan 2009 02:52:49 PM ISTHYDERABAD: A new dimension is emerging in the infamous Satyam saga. Information available with the Express suggests that thousands of people have been sent to the United States by the IT major on the basis of fake educational and employment certificates.
Highly-placed sources told this paper that this has been happening over the years and it is possible that a significant number of them may or may not be with the company now.
One reason for Satyam to resort to this step is the need for assistants of a varied nature — drivers, cooks, attenders, gardeners — for its highranking officials employed in the US.
While Indians are available for a pittance, employing a US citizen for similar works is a far more costlier proposition. What is interesting is that a majority of those packed off to the US for sundry jobs (projecting them as engineers) come from villages in Ramalinga Raju’s native district West Godavari in coastal Andhra Pradesh. Most of them belong to his community.
While Satyam employed North Indians in top positions, it chose those from Ahmedabad as low-level assistants.
About 400 of them from Hyderabad figure in the long list of those sent to the US by manipulating the records. It is also possible that hiring officials in Satyam, who allegedly offered employment to job-seekers for pecuniary consideration, may have provided fake employment papers to those intending to go to the US if they are not Satyam associates.
Politicians and others, whom Satyam has to keep in good humour, may also have used the Satyam label to obtain visas in cases where they have a vested interest.
The CID wing of the AP Police, which is probing the Satyam scandal, has sniffed this angle too and is in the process of gathering details.
If any organisation is retaining foreign guest workers. This is what you may have to do.
If you know any foreign guest worker who is retained. The possiblity is that the organisation is also applying for Green Card for all these candidates. More often the job title of the candidate on the Green Card process is different than the actual job title, USCIS is unaware in most of the cases. The salary, the educational qualification is also different for most of the cases. This is because the Green Card has to be filed based on certain norms.
Please inform USCIS and provide them with the details of the candidate, the location etc. Also cc these two Senators Durbin and Grassley. USCIS will take action. May be we can get some jobs back.
Please pass these to all your friends and family members.
Please act now, also add this to all the blogs that you know.
Please act now…..
Found this on a Labor Condition Application (Form ETA 9035CP)used to hire H1-B
LOOK FOR “(C) Recruitment and Hiring:” BELOW, EMPLOYEES ARE IN BEST POSITION TO IDENTIFY VIOLATIONS TO Department of Labor and if they do, are protected from retaliation by employer. Nothing like protection when a company is downsizing.
20 CFR 655.738 and 655.739 and to make this documentation available to DOL officials upon request. The employer also agrees to make available for public examination a copy of the labor condition application and necessary supporting documentation as specified in 20 CFR 655.760 within one (1) working day after the date on which the application has been filed with DOL. This documentation must be retained for public examination at the place of employment or the employer’s principal place of business as identified in Item B. The employer agrees:
(A) Displacement: The employer will not displace any similarly employed U.S. worker within the period beginning 90 days before and ending 90 days after the date of filing a petition for an H-1B nonimmigrant supported by the application. See 20 CFR 655.738.
(B) Secondary Displacement: The employer will not place any H-1B nonimmigrant employed pursuant to this application with any other employer or at another employer’s worksite UNLESS the employer applicant first makes a bona fide inquiry as to whether the other employer has displaced or intends to displace a similarly
employed U.S. worker within the period beginning 90 days before and ending 90 days after the placement, and the employer applicant has no contrary knowledge.
If the other employer displaces a similarly employed U.S. worker during such period, the displacement will constitute a failure to comply with the terms of the labor condition application and the employer applicant may be subject to civil money penalties and debarment.
See 20 CFR 655.738.
(C) Recruitment and Hiring: Prior to filing any petition for an H-1B nonimmigrant pursuant to this application, the employer took or will take good faith steps meeting industry-wide standards to recruit U.S. workers for the job for which the nonimmigrant is sought, offering compensation at least as great as required to be offered to the H-1B nonimmigrant. The employer will (has) offer(ed) the job to any U.S. worker who (has) applied and is equally or better qualified than the H-1B nonimmigrant. See 20 CFR 655.739.
http://www.lca.doleta.gov/h1bcl_nw.pdf
As h1 holder, here is what I know: I am no that special than an American whose profession is like mine when it comes to talent. Why I was hired as h1, it is simple (corporate companies need for more money: capitalism):
1 - Cheap labor
2 - Work hard (as I have almost no other life than work compared to an American. Since I want to stay here I show-off to my boss raising the performance bar high, making them more dependable on me…)
(pls any h1 holder, don’t think you have a special talent than others, that is naive)
Besides to h1bs, there are other practices being exercised by corporate companies: moving jobs to offshore, outsourcing…
Why didn’t those congress members or politicians act at the right time when they allow in the first place those failed executives/corporations (contributors to the mess) follow this path or exercised this practice increased?
Because their intention was protecting their interest, in my opinion, they never seemed bothered by that. At that time they had good relationship with corporate companies, American people was not in their agenda.
But now accountability/blame started to be issues and they started to seem to care about the people who put them to that position in the first place.
My point, the politicians should still consider the consequences of their action to the best interest of their citizens and the future of America.
Its always easy to do all shit talking for The Americans and Indians (also for every other countries). Whatever the situation is one of the fact that has been looked on by closed eyes is Lots of Consultancies (software consultancies) hired H1B workers on cheaper rate fake their resume with fake experience and projects from big companies and sell those consultant.
Here H1B has been misused.
Almost every person know about it but no one have the guts to speak out against it. Siting on save room and then using some f***ing words isn’t going to prove any shit Americans or f***ing Indians superior of each others. Fact is one let the other do fake things.
In regard to comments #15 & #16;
Please learn to speak and write the English language correctly. It is amazing that you would even be viewed as employable in the US. Truly enlightening as to what US corporations are now hiring. Are they really that desparate or just greedy? I would hate to be the person responsible for overseeing their work as they’d have to spend an inordinate amount of time making corrections.
In regard to #17
From your comment, you seem to have no clue about what is really going on.
For your advice to learn to speak and write English language correctly, thank you.
We are employable because we are competent to do the job and at the same time providing better advantage for companies. Let’s be real, do you think the browser, the operating system you are using, the fuel efficient cars… are 100% done by people who speak and write English language correctly?
US corporations are hiring to get more profit, to reduce cost and operate efficiently and effectively.
Regarding the idea that you have to spend time making corrections:
- First of all no one is perfect and work is supposed to have such nature, (for example still the major OS provider ships products with bugs)
- Second of all you might be working under me and your work could be reviewed/certified by me
Accept the reality that some years back things that used to be done only in the US by US people, can now be done virtually anywhere by almost anyone with much superiority in quality. That is the reality, accept it! Live with it!
Don’t just think you can do better because you can speak or write English better, go and create or innovate to be ahead of the race.
Work closely with your people to have responsible and educated people in the leadership positions.
I just spoke to Bill Gates. He has agreed to layoff all H1Bs in Microsoft.
Thanks God, you do not urge to shoot bloody H1s on streets…. Jeez, people, what’s wrong with you?
This companies stock is very low,could it go lower? It may be a blessing in disguise for those laid off. Go spread your wings and fly away as fast as you can.
Looks like B.G became rich on this issue. It would be good if he gave back some of the
money to his devoted employees. Let’s see now, hire a person from a foreign country, pay no benefits, no stock options,no unemployment, pay lower wages,etc. Yup, he got rich. Yup, the lawyers
got rich too.
However, the company’s stock is going down. That should be a clear message that their plan does
not work.
Now think about the amount of taxes the US citizen has paid all their lives to improve schools,
roads,sidewalks,etc. Are these companies paying back taxes for these hires for schools, roads,
sidewalks, etc? Does the H1B visa persons have to pay back taxes?
Does the foreign country, have the same number of H1B visas(or whatever they call them) for US citizens to work abroad at these wage rates?
It is very simple, this company is failing. Could it be they have been hiring the wrong people?
#21 You are aware that H1-B holders pay the very same taxes as the US citizens, aren’t you? But they aren’t eligible for any benefits - no unemployment insurance, no social security benefits.
P.S. Sidewalks??? In the US??? Mwa-hahahaha!
#22: Good point, btw! Currently h1b workers are paying for benefits, which they are ineligible to receive. To pay state/federal taxes - OK; unemployment insurance, medicare, social security - WTF?
#21: What you seem to be suggesting is that you started paying taxes as soon as you were born. I guess you were born with a golden spoon. But let me point out that you started paying taxes when you had an source of income and hence everybody does. And as pointed out, we don’t get the benefits of it. It is you who is getting it. Enjoy it my AFriend.
This is the most dissapointing thread I have ever read. The decision to bring in H1B’s is the companies that hire the employees. #15 is correct in his comments. Each company is responsible for performing their own background checks on employees and if these people were incompetitent than they would or should be gone. Likely the companies are just managing salary expenses.
This reminds me of the racism of the 70’s, and it is sad that people turn to differences as soon as times get tough. Entitlement mentality will not get you far.
US loss is India’s gain.
India to have more startups due to H1B visa ban:
http://www.siliconindia.com/shownews/52677
How many programmers are women at Microsoft that are US citizens by birth that work in the US?
How many technical people at Microsoft are women that are US citizens by birth, quality assurance, design, etc that work in the US?
How many technical managers at Microsoft are women that are US citizens by birth that work in the US?
How many total technical people are at Microsoft?
How many total technical managers are at Microsoft?
I am trying to figure out the percent of (US born women) that work in the technical trade at Microsoft in each category above.
MphasiS serves pink slips to 200 at Bangalore centre. MphasiS, the Hewlett Packard (HP)-controlled IT and BPO services firm, has once again issued pink slips to nearly 200 employees at its Bangalore centre.
The H1b visa system is broken. It would be great if the government reforms the system than simply issue more visas. Things which can be amended to the H1b system are:
- Easy and straightforward way to gain permanent residence by paying taxes for a number of years.
- Allow H1b immigrants to gain permanent residence and citizenship if they haven’t broken any law.
- Allow H1b immigrants more freedom to start companies by reforming the rules.
- Reduce dependence of H1b holders on their employers
The American government is taking H1b engineers and IT professionals for granted. They think it is a ‘privilege’ to be in America and they don’t care about the ‘life’ of foreign workers. The H1b visa system is totally un-American. It is good that many people are leaving America as the american economy is going down and if the derivatives in American economy collapse, Americans won’t have much to live for.Their ‘large homes’, ‘large cars’ will all go down the drain.Without people, their country will lose. Europe is advanced compared to America and offers a higher quality of life. Asia is a good place to live.Most American don’t get this because they are totally ignorant of the outside world. The people and the government assume just because they have issued a visa ,’cheap’ laborers will flock the shores of America to work under any conditions of a broken visa system.This is not working anymore.I don’t think their attitude will change but they will pay the price in a few years.
American engineers are smart, that is a FACT. If the guest workers are so smart, then pay them the full American wage, and make them full American citizens.
You do know that Einstein was an immigrant, don’t you?
The US NEVER needed ANY H1B’ers to begin with. It was simply the greed of high-tech companies that started it all. They created a false shortage of workers, when in fact the majority of those laid off in the aerospace industry (and US college grads) were more than qualified for the jobs that H1B’ers stole from American workers by undercutting our wages.
H1B’ers will get no sympathy from me. If H1B’ers are so smart, they should stay in India and try to compete with the US on a level playing field. Of course, that’s not realistic, because these folks WANT to live here. By the way, if Europe is so enlightened, move there and see what kind of welcome you get in this economic environment. You’ll be treated no better and probably worse than here.
Reality check. This is not an immigration debate. This is a debate about importing foreign workers that are not needed and are undercutting the wages of US citizens (of any color or creed), so no racism garbage either. Naturalized US citizens paid their dues to become citizens. H1B’ers think that simply because they came here and worked for a few years that they automatically deserve citizenship. Baloney. Become a citizen like every other immigrant before you. H1Bs are not your ticket to US citizenship.
Finally, if you are an American citizen and you’re worried about mercenaries coming into this country and sabotaging the future of yourself and your family, do something about it. Write to all of your representatives and tell them you want this program ended entirely. The idea that if we dont bring them in will lead to more US job losses is baloney. How many more 100s of thousands of jobs need to be lost to wake people up to the fact that the US does not need to import workers of any kind?
This is all about cheap labor they even have a facility just accross the border in Canada use a loophole in order to get foreign workers to canada first for 1 year and then work in Redmond.
I know for a FACT! that Microsoft lawyers TRAIN the H1b’s to know what to say on inmigration like that they are on temporal basis and similar stuff but the reality is that they are for here to stays instead of temporary.
I got a call from a recruiter in India for a position at Infosys. They seemed more interested in my availability to interview than placing me in a specific job. Furthermore, the advertisement said ‘US Citizens or Green Card holders only’. I am a US citizen. When I asked for which position they wanted to interview me, the recruiter said ‘many’, ranging from programmer to Project Manager. I have no programming or project management experience, but I did not argue. When I got a follow up email from the Infosys HR recruiter, I was asked to show up for a 2 hour interview and make sure I completed 3 HR documents. The email said that if I did not fill out the documents or show proof of identity, that the interview would be cancelled. I asked the Infosys recruiter for which job they were considering me. He has not responded to my email. I have reached the conclusion that if an HR person who is so detailed on the specifics on filing paperwork can not take 5 minutes to reply to my email and discuss the real issue of the potential job at hand, there probably is no job! I am not too concerned about finding a job even in this down economy as I am highly qualified. What concerns me is the extent to which companies pretend to recruit qualified US candidates just to justify sometimes unnecessary H1-b visas.
When there is increase in the number of job looser,there is also an increase in the foreclosure deals.This can be one way of earning money.
I agree that foreclosures can be a good business. This can be a good way to earn some extra income as well. There is a good company managing their clients portfolio by investing in foreclosures for their clients in canada.
Just out of curiosity, what is the purpose of this finding?