IBM Cutting More Jobs, Shifting Work to India
Weeks after slashing nearly 5,000 jobs, IBM is expected to shift the work of a large number of U.S. workers to IBM employees working in India, the latest example of a successful company that is continuing to slash costs and take advantage of cheap Asian labor, WSJ reported.
Source: WSJ, Fox Business News
Update (March, 25, 2009): IBM to cut 5,000 jobs in U.S: According to Reuters: “The job cuts will account for over 4 percent of IBM’s U.S. workforce, which totaled around 115,000 at the end of 2008. The sources, who were not authorized to speak publicly on the issue, said the cuts will mostly be in IBM’s global services business, which includes outsourcing and consulting services.”
BusinessWeek also reports (”IBM Cuts Jobs As It Seeks Stimulus Money“): “..the company would be cutting high-skill positions domestically as it and others jockey for new business from the $787 billion stimulus package Congress enacted in February”
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f*ck IBM maybe they should move the entire company to INDIA.
worthless POS’s they are..
IBM is Indian Business Machines
This is OK as long as IBM will be developing and selling their stuff in India. If they are going to take it back to US and sell it — it should be a tax.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/IBM-to-shift-large-number-of-US-jobs-to-India-Report/articleshow/4316277.cms
Computer giant IBM plans to cut a “large number” of US employees in its business services unit and transfer their duties to India,
the Wall Street Journal reported on Wednesday.
The newspaper, citing “people familiar with the situation,” said that IBM generally avoids public disclosure of layoffs and the number of US jobs being eliminated could not be determined.
It said that earlier this year, IBM sent notices of layoffs to around 4,600 employees in its software, sales, semiconductor and finance groups.
The Journal, citing an internal document, said the global business services group targeted for layoffs is the largest at IBM in terms of revenue and employment, with 180,000 employees worldwide.
Good. Lenovo made IBMs laptop’s much better, the quality of the rest of their products will be improves on this move!
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IBM must die. Morons
I work in the San Jose office, and a few people in my area just got the bad news…
Buy American? I think we should boycott any products coming from this unpatriotic company. Maybe they should fly India’s Flag outside their company.
i was laid off from big blow in 2001…during the first bush jr. recession. honestly it was the greatest thing that happened to me at the time. i hated the place and the only reason i got laid off is because i didn’t find another job before they could get to me. they did the same crap back then though…told everyone they were the only ones not announcing massive layoffs. but then shortly later started to secretly put people on “probation” for no reason only to let them go afterwords. i’ve never worked at a place where most of the people i worked with left ’cause they hated it…like me.
Hey this sounds just like HP. “How Pathtic” is not announcing the “BIG” layoff to the public but I know plenty of people on the inside who just got news last week that there will be a 10-12% layoff by the end of April. I am not sure how much of this will affect the entire company but the rather large group this was tied to isnt SMALL.
Ive already decided that HP’s values and legacy have died soon after Carly took over and then with Mr. Hurd..its just the same thing but in male-drag. He looks good on paper but the reality of it is he sucks. I say if the lower ranks are good enought to be laid off and jobs moved to India or any other LCC (Low cost country) then so should all the upper level management jobs. I don’t buy the idea that there are no smart CEO types in India that could easily save “HP” and the likes millions of dollars just by replacing the head guy/gal and paying them in equivalent of their local currencies. Come guys….why dont you do this???
I was at IBM from 2001 - 2008, and was ‘resourced’ last December. The IBM job was the job that in many ways I hated to loose and at the same time hated. Smartest people I ever worked with - but the most crappy and anxiety ridden company I ever worked for. I cant say IBM management sucks because they really dont have anything that could be termed management. When I was ‘resourced’ I felt like I was let out of prison. I am much happerier without them and no lonber need to sell services supported by a company that would probably let me down in terms of quatlity/cost/schedule. It was a constant heartattack.
As far as India - any company that says “people are our greatest asset” are giving you the big BOHICA.
Corporate greed knows no limits. It is understandable though. As their business matures and cheap competitors enter their space, companies have to outsource to lower cost or die.
This is a normal business cycle. The only problem: US has failed to restart new business cycles while old ones matured.
For IBM to acquire Sun, MySQL and move dev to India is an obvious step since there are countless indian villages coding in Java and QA-ing Java junk code.
kaiser was outsource to IBM something we didnt expect.
IBM is anti-American. At this time, especially, American business management should be working on ways to invest in America. IBM is showing its true colors.
[...] IBM Cutting More Jobs, Shifting Work to India Weeks after slashing nearly 5,000 jobs, IBM is expected to shift the work of a large number of U.S. workers to IBM [...] [...]
IBM is increasingly become a collection of mainly older white figureheads
representing a business where all the work is completed in India. Thank you IBM for selling out a entire generation of technology workers. I hope your bonuses are on a par with AIG.
IBM does not care about the technology. It does care about big gov money and consulting services done abroad.
IBM should be locked out of any stimulus package $$$$$. They do not deserve it as they would just give those taxpayer dollars to India.
US cannot produce tens of thousands of java monkey coders overnight. IBM wants to hit three birds with one stone: to collect stimulus bucks, to get IT work done for less $$ and to put $$$$$ difference into their large pockets via bonuses. A Wall street style of thinking, you know. They should seriously consider to go into banking and/or insurance business.
we must begin to renew America. IBM must be set straight or outed
Why is everyone blaming IBM, they are only doing what our congress lets them do, collect taxpayer money, layoff americans, outsource jobs overseas and get a tax break for doing all this, it is evident that CANDIDATE Obama’s promise to punish companies that outsource and reward those that keep jobs in the US has been forgotten by PRESIDENT Obama.
Anyone knows the numbers of Canadian casualties in the Toronto office?
nothing as of now.. IBM is strong in canada.. And the projects are coming in… Its a good news..
Get real guys. If Americans don’t want to study engineering, someone has to invent the wonderful new gadgets we all like.
Check out this CompE class photo:
http://www.engr.sjsu.edu/cmpe/
(click for the humongous size)
Notice something?
you don’t get it. We are outsourcing America. It cannot continue and still maintain the country we all love and live in. The other countries manipulate monetary policy, taxes, import/export fees, and education assistance in order to compete.
Americans have always been with the leaders in innovation….American management is being short-sighted and seeking early profit in exchange for long term growth.
And in addition…..
The racial diversity of the class of engineers has nothing to do with it. If any ethic group wants to gain legal access into American and study engineering, then they and we are better off. The discussion has to do with
outsourcing those jobs to another country, and in this case subsidizing other countries for work that should be done in America.
The Toyota car building model is a good example. They invest facilities, car design, quality control policies and some management and then employ workers to help build and manage a good quality product. True…Corp gets profits but also American gain expertise and manufacturing.
A win on all sides, I think.
23, 24 I actually agree with you on most points. That picture, however, isn’t very diverse - and if we continue doing what we do, eventually the universities will just close, because locals don’t study and foreigners will just stop coming once most of production and R&D moves overseas.
And I wouldn’t be too quick blaming “management” for being short-sighted. High short-term profits for companies trickle down to regular people, who can afford bigger houses, bigger cars, bigger TVs, etc. And I’m not so sure most people will be very willing to scale down in the name of long-term growth.
well, I am a part of senior management, not IBM, and I am very concerned with the ethics exhibited on the part of American management. The free
market society, without regard to common sense, has contributed greatly
to the economic situation we are in.
The bottom line is any company, including IBM, should not be both outsourcing
American jobs to India and also putting their corporate hand out for taxpayer
money for infrastructure projects. That is just pure greed!
Uncle Sam: Hello. How are you today ?
Other Sam: Doing well. Very well.
US : I understand you are looking for investments in your company. Tell me a little bit about it.
OS : Well, I respresent “ India Brazil Manilla China Over Real Patriotism INC.“. But at the end of the day, I represent me.
US : I see. Can you give me an overview of your business plan and how it will map to our needs.
OS : Well, I can you give me an overview of our business plan. But at the end of the day, you’ll get what we want.
US : Huh? Uh, OK. Let’s hear your business plan.
OS : Well, we have all this experience here in country A. We’re going to let them teach what they know is a short period of time to folks in country B. So at the end of the day, almost literally, we will have knowledge transferred elsewhere. So in essence we are promoting you education plan. Training others.
US : Uh huh. Then what happens ?
OS : Well, we let the experience in country A go away, and we have a shadow of it in country B. Which is good enough. At the end of the day.
US : OK. And how long will this continue ?
OS : A couple of months to a year. It depends on how long country B employees decide to stay with us.
US : Not “how long will experience continue to exist in your company” ! “How long will this business plan continue” ?
OS : Let’s see, 130,000 divided by 5,000 per quarter ….. hmm that’s a tough one. I’ll let you know.
US : When ?
OS : At the end of the day.
US : Sounding a little tone deaf. And lyric deaf.
OS : Huh ?
US : Never mind. So what about this money we would give you ?
OS : Well, for every 5,000 “training sessions” we conduct, we get to take roughly $300 million out of Country A’s economy. Less for you to have to keep track of. But at the end of the day, you’ll get a pretty cheap infrastructure.
US : Cheap, but effective ?
OS : LOL. No. Cheap. We’ve changed our motto from “Sure we’re expensive, but look at the quality you get” to “Sure it doesn’t work the way you want, but look how cheap it is”.
US : I see.
OS : Cheap, cheap, cheap.
US : So the extra profit you make. It goes back into our economy ?
OS : LOL. D’uh. We use it to hire more folks in Country B. And maybe even do a Research Center or two.
US : OK. Thanks. I’ve heard enough.
OS : Cool. So, what’s your decision ?
US : I’ll let you know. At the end of the day. But don’t call us. We’ll call you.
OS : Awsome. Here’s the number you can call. It’s our help desk. And, if you can, please call after 8:00AM Bangalore time. It’s cheaper that way.
27, sad but true.
At Canada, most of IBM employees are from India. My friend who left Project Management job at IBM said, he dont want to report to Indian Manager from Bangalooor, who cant even speak North Americal Culture.
He was saying America has to innovate soime thing new in 2-3 years, else in the name of Protectionism and Outsourcing people will fight without any yeiald.
I have over 15 years of IT experience and have been with IBM Global Services for the past 4 years. I was told last week that my job is being eliminated as part of IBM’s global resourcing strategy. I have a 16 month old and I’m not sure that I’m going to be able to keep my home. I hope Obama doesn’t give major government contracts to IBM. Americans need large corporations to lead the way and help us to fix our economy. Instead, IBM is obsessed with greed. They are not hurting as other companies are but yet they continue to put Americans out on the street.
I worked at IBM as a contractor. Busted my butt and did great work for almost 5 years. How did IBM treat me in return? Shipped my job overseas and gave me a 2 day notice. Im not one for entitlements but I at least deserve respect.
Best career move that ever happened to me was being laid off from IBM in 2005!
President Obama, these white-collar workers are the “rich” taxpayers you are targeting to pay for everything. I suggest you do what you can to keep jobs at home, like you promised during your campaign.
#35, you mean most white-collar workes make $250K+? Damn it, I must be doing something wrong. Can’t get much over 120
I’m 62 & had plans to retire later this year, but ibm took that option away from me and come 4/27 I will be laid off. Better me than some middle aged bloke trying to provide for a family…not that ibm took that into consideration since consideration is not part of their policy.
So far, no one has asked for me to turn over my work activities (I’m the only one doing them) and I look forward to seeing if they understand English or not.
By the way, it was just about a year ago when the recession was really raising it’s ugly head, that ibm cut our pay by 15% and changed us from exempt to non-exempt. They said most of us could make up the lost wages by working a few hours overtime each week. This is one great company.
Looking forward to being an ex-IBMer!!! Worst company I have ever worked for.
[...] [Update 03-25-2009] IBM to Cut 5,000 U.S. Jobs, Shifting Work to India, [ discussion [...]
I am the National Sales Recruiter for Pitney Bowes Management Services. If you are a Sales Executive and are looking for a great opportunity please go to our web-site http://www.pb.com/careers and apply to all positions you are interested in. Former IBM employee’s “usually do well at Pitney.
If you are “training” your replacements, I say wtf - just take your time and leave them in the dark. They will take over your jobs no matter what, so why bust your ass for nothing?
IBM is at its lowest point, but I won’t be surprised if it will go even lower.
India is taking away all of the American IT professional positions. That is one of the main reasons for the economy of this country going down the tubes.
The people of India claim to be more intelligent than Americans. Pity, did they invent Microsoft… oh, excuse me that was an American by the name of Bill Gates. Hmmm… did they invent the automobile, the light bulb, microwave… McDonalds?
the people of India also claim that they have a lot of starving people in their country, and that they need the work. Well, hello, what the heck is their government doing for them? And, du-uh… they revere the cow as a sacred God! Oh, and they burn wives who have little or no dowery, and they still have the CASTE system. Well, what do you expect from a third-world country?
The Indian people will also tell you that they can live like kings on $5,000 per year. Well, their level of “living like kings” is quite lower than American’s view of living like kings.
And folks, I worked with these people of India for many years… they learn our stuff and then move back to their country (as they do not want to stay in ours) and take the work with them. If you don’t believe this… ask anyone who is still in IT.
I know of someone who is training three young men from India his job, and was told by his company (another big one like IBM)that he will be let go in another year after he completes the training of these young men. Early retirement they call it!
You have to look at this way… it is taking three of them to one of us! du-uh???? But, again, they work for far more less… so the company is still making money on them.
I am told that we Americans had gotten too big for our britches…. that we don’t know how to live simply anymore… that we depend on our big SUVs, big homes, big screen TVs, ya da ya da ya da. We all fell for that “great American dream”… only to find out that it has turned into a nightmare.
I have downsized my life twice already, and am forced to downsize again… next…. I will be becoming a bag-lady!
I was an IT professional, an IBM mainframe computer programmer and business analyst until the end of January when I was “laid off” because my job went to India. And it was with one of the major banks that collected the bail-out and awarded execs big bonuses and laid off droves of employess, after cutting their salaries 15%. Recently, the employees were told no more vacations and no sick time. All time taken off for any of these reasons will have to be made up from now on.
I have other skills that I can fall back on. I was going to study medical coding, transcribing and billing but was told not to bother as all of those functions are being outsourced to India as well.
Tell me, what isn’t being outsourced to India… or better yet… what is being insourced to America?
Come on Americans… it is time to take back America… for the people, by the people!
logic is not moral or immoral, people are !
God bless and good luck to those in this difficult situation
IBM is using going to get Osama Bin Laden mad that they are using india as a base to gain power for an American Company. Not only does it endanger lives but assets for the stock holders. How could a company exploit people and expect to prosper. Its only a matter of time and we will all say we told you so IBM. Use common sense dont send your assets to a foreign country just to make a buck. They are safer in the US staffed by USA citizens
Good Luck IBM you will need it
Good luck to all. Anything that can be transmitted over the Internet will be outsourced. I just wish China will soon do to India what it did to the US workforces. Sadly, companies like IBM will probably get even more profitable…
Word on the street is that one of IBM’s big accounts, Disney is going to be outsourcing their IT support for their data centers to India. June 1st, there will be many layoffs. Indian’s are being brought from India to be trained by the very same people who will be losing their jobs to.
How can an American Company such as IBM be asking for “Stimulus Funds” while cutting american jobs and having Indians perform the very sames functions overseas?
All if not all IBM and contractors working the Disney account will be let go. Most IT functions will be performed from India.
Now, Disney, the all american company…. having their Amercian data centers in FL, OH and CA supported and operated from India?
How is our economy to recover while Goliath’s like IBM taking the jobs overseas? It’s all about the stock price. In times such as these, we should be rebuilding our own economic state, not broadening a 3rd world countries.
IBM will use the stimulus money to lay off more American workers and hire more Indians and other foreigners overseas. What a shame. Which company is next to jump on the “I want stimulus money for the sake of it” bandwagon. To stimulate for what and for who, certainly not for the Amerian economy and for the American people… for sure.
41, well, America didn’t invent the lightbulb, nor the automobile. Anyway. First, I want to say that I love America. I think, for the most part, she is resourceful and creative. However, I’m not sure Amercians should be complaining about outsourced jobs and the “greedy” upper management. American’s are a people who will say they are a capitalist “dog eat dog” society. The culture is one of “bottom line”, not “watch out for your neighbor”…because that would be socialist. You have no universal health care for example, because the attitude is you should look out for yourself. Americans will say the world hates them because the world is envious. It’s simply not true, they hate you because you occupy countries out of self interest, not the interest of the people of those countries…although you will try to sell it that way. Your President for the last 8 years made decisions for politics sake, not the good of the nation and everyone went along and lost their freedom and democracy in the process. Perhaps Americans, like their forefathers, will have to move to another country to make a better life.
…and by the way…the profits you see in your 401Ks, which you all want to see go up, go up (although not lately of course) because companies that you are invested in are always looking to improved the bottom line, for you, their investors. One way they do that is cut costs, like people, by outsourcing them. And it doesn’t really matter if it’s a good longterm decision, because they need to show you…their investors, that the bottom line is getting better…NOW…not later. They’re not going to say, hey, you know, you’re investments haven’t increased that much…but overall for the nation, that’s a good thing because otherwise…if we keep outsourcing and stuff…well heck…we’ll go into a recession and you might lose everything in your 401k.
Today at the stockholder meeting Sam had a big smile and throw dust in stockholders eyes again!
No matter how harsh the questions he and the the board of directors were asked Sam paused smile and answered vaguely the questions.
SMARTER PLANET, SMARTER EVERYTHING, the new computer called Watson to compete in Jeopardy show and so on……
No one cared about the people who got laid off, I just wanted to look into this eyes and see how he is afraid of loosing the job and his $27 million in stock earnings for 2009 in addition to his salary.
This company is a country not a corporation, run by politicians, sales people and marketers -PR guys ect….
IBM needs to clean up HR and figure out how to be SMARTER on their own BEFORE they get the client’ mony and charte 3 times more for a proejct supporse to be run on the client’s server.
Hmmm let’s see…
IBM is raising its dividend, buying back more stocks, projecting $10 to $11 earnings for 2010(!), AND holding the annual meeting in Miami(?!). Who else is capable of doing all these? I’d say they are on a roll, but at the expense of the US workforces.
IBM’s VP Linda Sanford has made the statement to her staff that in 5 yrs 75% of all business operations in IBM will be run out of India. Please write your congressperson and Senate reps and let them know you do not want our stimulus money going to companies who employee people other than US Citizens. If the companies can not assure that fact then they should not be awarded and Govt contracts. IBM and other companies are selling out the American tech workers.
IBM is trying to implement the 90-10 model i.e. 90% project resources would be in India and other nations where they have development centers and 10% resources here in the States. Only the Sales and top level management would be here. This has never been done. IBM is very aggressive about this model. Since IBM has always been on the fore front of the Model, other companies like Deloitte, Accenture etc would follow soon.
This has nothing to do with the economy as IBM made a ton of cash last year and have enough to survive this year. They are riding on the Economic slowdown reason to justify the layoffs. If at all the States need to be competent in the IT space, they have to be innovative of how to stop this leakage because this benefits others more than anyone else. One eighth of IBM is in India. This number could very well become half if this is not stopped.
IBM and other companies think that because you can spell something you know it. They are all interested in making people specialists and have lost sight of the real skills that made the companies great. I saw a situation where in order to get a certain profit, that heads (offshore persons) were added to a deal in order to work the pricing numbers to get a signature and a closed deal. Having been working as the key estimator for the job, I personally sized the job and had the specific skills outlined. The offshore resources did not exist that were added to the contract. The contract was signed as a third party to another vendor who was working for a major US corporation that is in some financial hot water…I won’t say who but you can figure it out. The bottom line is that the work that gets done and the designs are done in the US, then part of the jobs go overseas in order to get profit, but who’s to say if they actually have people there, or just bill hours and let the local ones do the work? I know these people didn’t exist, but when I asked about it, they said that’s the way it works. Maybe I should have said something then…but how do you prove it? Just saying it is about as effective as complaining here. It just makes you feel better that people know…You now know…just watch the future.