Tech Rumor of the Day: Cisco Layoffs
With sales still in steep decline and no sign of recovery on the horizon, Cisco is expected to make a massive staff cut.
Analysts expect Cisco to guide fiscal fourth quarter revenue down 17%-22% year-over-year, as demand continues to deteriorate.
Cisco could also announce a 10% headcount reduction, which could save $900M annually, according to JPMorgan analysts.
Source: Yahoo Finance, TheStreet.com
Update 1 (04-14-2009): Cisco dismisses ‘hefty’ layoffs rumor. According to a Cisco spokesperson: “On our fiscal second quarter 2009 earnings call in February we discussed a limited restructuring where we could in the near term see a total reduction of between 1,500 and 2,000 jobs company wide. This does not represent a broad-scale layoff in our workforce”.
Source: The Register
Update 2 (04-16-2009): According to WARN listing, Cisco Systems cuts 255 jobs in San Jose, California in April 2009
Update 3 (04-30-2009): According to rumors, Cisco “will delay the 10% layoff planned in May. But we will get 1 week shutdown in August”.
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Love Chambers and his “Cisco family.”
What a douchebag.
The guy just acquired Tidal Software for about 105M; now short of cash, needs to save some.
We are saving 60M, by cutting Coke, Water, Broadband, Mobile phones..~50% of tidal software aquisition..
Every Qtr Cisco saving ~ 1.5bn in profits.. which is equal to 150 Tidal software companies..
The company should double the prices in it’s cafeteria (building 21)
Maybe they shouldn’t have acquird Pure Digital for half a billion dollars.
..and Tidal, and many others. IMO.
10% Job cut is not a good idea, 10% pay cut is innovative idea.
No way in hell I’ll do this crap job for 10% less!!!…Lay me off thank you.
Anything happening yet, in the SJ campus?
What he is doing is out with the old and in with the new. The new being Tidal SW. Anything to make the financials look good.
No actions are expected prior to the earnings announcement in May. This is just a rumor based on the (likely) event that there will be a bad earnings announcement and that Chambers cant wait any longer to unload people. No real surprise given the current environment.
I am hearing this rumor too. No doubt it will be blood after missed expectations upcomming report.
Actually they know the financials already with only 2 weeks left in the quarter. They probably have the hit list as well.
After being at Cisco for almost 9 years, they normally don’t clearly announce any layoffs. They normally say, that they continuously reduce the bottom 5% percent that are not productive or not cutting it. Very far from the truth. Over the past few years they have drifted more away from what made them a great company and moved more towards an IBM political environment with more and more things becoming very difficult to do, even it’s the best choice for the customer.
Cisco did lay people off today (Apr 14, 2009). Call it what you want, but around 400 people were given walking papers. These were not all bottom 5% performers. It was a mix of bottom performers and “business decisions”
Where did it happen? San Jose, Tasman drive? What groups are affected? Are they (400 people) a contractors or FTEs? Did they kick away any of FT H1Bs? Please give us more info!! Thank yoy!!!
Ah! How exciting!! What a great opportunity to use a lot of exclamation points!!! What a wonderful day would it be if a few H1-B FTEs are kicked out. Would be super if all 400 were H1-B FTEs. If Cisco had any wisdom, it would completely rid itself of all H1-Bs and hire the-obviously-way-better local people to replace them.
Actually, why stop there? Many of the non-H1 Indian/Chinese guys in Cisco (the GC, naturalized citizen crowd) were actually H1-Bs at some point of time. They too should be kicked out/fired/road-rolled/some violent expression to match the ferocity with which they need to be thrown out. Just because they’ve been around a bit shouldn’t qualify them to be kept around, *logically* speaking. They were not born here. They are second class. Well third class, maybe. (Probably second class has no room any more). In terms of professional skills, like current H1s, these once-upon-a-time H1s also have poor grammatical skills, nasty accents and tough to pronounce names. They cannot code/manage/talk sports etc. if their life depended on it. (Sweeping generalizations, I know. But no more sweeping than other true generalizations like sky is blue, seas are deep etc. People who don’t accept these are anyway not real Americans. So why worry about their opinions.)
Cisco has been carrying this garbage though it knew that these guys make pathetic products and are absolutely low-grade in thousands of ways. It was just that as a non-profit working to make the world a better place, it felt that it needed to uplift a few third worlders from a life of poverty and misery. Good ideals to have when we were riding a couple of bubbles, but enough is enough. Now there are tent cities here as well and as an American company it better uplift the first-worlders first (as they have “first” in their tags, first-worlders obviously need to be considered first for any opportunity anywhere in any world. Those are the rules. I didn’t make the rules, I’m just repeating them here, just in case some third worlders don’t know.)
Once Cisco does the right thing, we can all celebrate, feel proud that a big American company stood on principle and did what was the absolute right/moral thing to do. Maybe this becomes a trend and many other big/small companies do the right thing as well. Hopefully America can be more like how it was in the 50s and 60s (just gives me goosebumps to even think of such a possibility). We can then be assured that this country is getting back on its feet and is heading in the right direction. Then it will again become that shining light atop the hill (or whatever the expression is), that beacon of hope, that land of limitless opportunity where all you need to succeed is talent and the ability to work hard (some exclusions may apply, see website for details).
Go back to your trailer park and wear your swastika and goose step over there. devrandom you are a racist moron. this country
is built on the sweat of immigrants.
Shut the fuck up, Sanjay. If you can’t see Chambers and his ilk are ruining the nation, then you’re too stupid to stay in this country.
Just remember, a global WAGE scale without a global PRICE scale means poverty and death for all, ESPECIALLY Americans.
Anonymous @ 8:44am - you probably should calibrate your sarcasmometer
Toatally agree:
Why stop there, all white trashes, pack up and back to “Yorup”. What? Yor are born here? So what, your white trash parents and grand parents. You all should be kicked out. This is originally land of “Indians”
Totally agree:
Why stop there, all white trashes, pack up and back to “Yorup”. What? Yor are born here? So what, your white trash parents and grand parents. You all should be kicked out. This is originally land of “Indians”
The respond here does not refect Indain values…may be H1 who saw the $$ first time
LOL, you are a funny guy.
A - I see - so you’re a native American Indian ?
I heard the same from some colleages at Cisco. About 400 people, mostly in the sales teams, worldwide. Most of the exact details on who are not yet announced internally.
Agreed, worldwide sites covering mostly the Sales org and some in the Service org. haven’t heard what the split was between employee classifications - H1B, contractors, etc.
One of my friends at Cisco says they have 3 useless guys over in India that her boss is protecting who is Indian too. Very interesting.
I wonder how soon Chambers will be arrested in an H1 fraud arrest?
Immigration - did you have a bad experience with Cisco and John C or why the open bitterness?
I know few business development folks from Cisco sales team who got pink slips yesterday. These were NOT
bottom 5%, but really good people with lot of knowledge base. I dont know what was the reason to let them
go
Cisco is now far beyond the notion of letting go only the bottom feeders. They are now involved in a top-to-bottom review of their business and where and how to re-align resources. Some people get burned by this, but again, it’s not surprising given the environment. There are many good, long-term employees being affected. Let’s just hope that they dont do a real layoff affecting thousands. That will make these surgical moves seem pale in comparison.
Immigration cop @8:53 am
> Shut the fuck up, Sanjay.
Yes, wherever you are and whoever you are, Mr. Sanjay, do as Immigration cop says. It is not a good idea to disobey the super powerful people’s decrees.
> If you can’t see Chambers and his ilk are ruining the nation, then you’re too stupid to stay in this country.
Just to be specific, what do you think the minimum IQ requirement is, for one to live/work in USA? I always doubted that I didn’t meet the requirements, but no one ever gave me the exact number. Being an Immigration cop and such, I suppose you’ve some information. Any other requirements exist as well?
> Just remember, a global WAGE scale without a global PRICE scale means poverty and death for all, ESPECIALLY Americans.
Well as is obvious from my previous post, I don’t have an MBA from a (good) school. Just to be on the same page, I suppose employing a H1-B with a Masters in CS or EE for about $100K a year starting salary (and paying a similarly educated guy in India $20k) is global WAGE scale, right?
Some idiots think that this whole global skill trade (sounds so much like flesh trade, but I digress) cannot be looked at through a very narrow prism. Those imbeciles believe that if there really was no supply of code monkeys from the third world, there probably wouldn’t have been this kind of market for IT (and IT skills). They refuse to believe that all small/big companies would have happily paid super-talented average American engineers with wonderful attitudes $250k+ p.a. if only the third worlders didn’t exist. These people don’t believe that even if a Windows XP or a Cisco switch costed 10-15 times more, all small/medium/big businesses would have just taken everything in stride and just paid whatever to survive, just like the average American consumer continues to buy American cars in spite of their poor price/quality ratios. They seem to think they know something about supply and demand, but like in case of everything else intellectual, they don’t know squat. It is up to the brilliant people on the anti-immigrant side to put some sense into these dead brains (I know it is difficult, but if anyone can do it, it is the brilliant average American who can).
Peace.
20 were let go in CS 2 weeks ago. Pinto announced his reorg structure yesterday, 2 friends that are both grade 12 and 1 VP. Sales got hit out in NYC yesterday too. No word in AS yet.
It’s obvious who is getting targeted. It’s those at the higher grade levels with large numbers stock options on the table. Wonder what the severence packages of those include?
[...] 04-15-2009] Rumor: Cisco could announce a 10% headcount reduction [updated daily, (New), discussion [...]
From the docs I have, they laid off 33 yesterday in TS and potentially more today… It’s musical chairs at Cisco…stop, drop and roll
It’s the Cisco PR machine that they are laying off the bottom 5%. Employees categorized in the top 10% are getting pink slips. Hiring in India is their first and foremost priority.
They have to be taxed. You want to produce your stuff in India - fine, go for it. What to take the product to the US and sell it here: sure, not a problem as long as you are taxed per license, per stream, per megabyte. It’s time to wake up and give a lesson to these fat cats.
Both of my friends were grade 12s here at least 13-15 years, not sure if top 10 or not.
Misc, what function were your two grade 12 friends in? You mean they were let-go?
Under Rick Jacobs in TS. 1 VP Glueck was also let go which leads me to believe quite a few 12s and above were targetted. Both of my friends have been with Cisco over 11 years because they hired me in CS years ago. I talked to a friend of mine today and she said that TS isnt’ done yet and Sales will announce shortly. I also talked to an SSM that hasn’t been hit yet. The folks back in NYC
said SEs were affected a lot. NYC and Edison was hit in Sales. More to follow once I hear.
Sorry, grade 12 Business Ops Mgrs.
CSSO and CVCM has been hit by an LR on March 30. It affected 250 people. I don’t really know those groups.
yesterday, a few people have been laid off in Cisco Spain too.
We have over 400 VPs in Cisco and hundreds of directors. We also have 10’s of BUs that compete with each other! it’s madness.
That may work well in a boom but its not working now. Where is the business value in buying Cisco now? How, exactly, does the network matter?
Don’t confuse market momentum for a clear strategy and “execution”.
The company is asleep at the wheel. All this rubbish about “command and control” and “collaboration”- nice marketing- it doesn’t work.
And what idiots are in the acquisition team? Set top boxes? HD Video manufacturers? No idea of how the market is evolving. JC talks a good game about “market transitions” but doesn’t “execute”.
Can’t wait to see the results of the “pulse survey”- amazing timing that one! Please vote for “best place to work” and then after that the survey,oh and then announce that we are taking away free fruit and drinks plus your mobile phone and home broadband.
Too much “Halo effect” Wall Street…
Cisco employs too much useless managers. The company needs to cut dead wood. Building 24 @ tasman drive is full of such junk.
Cisco has more then 3times consultants then FTE, need to get rid of consultants first
Need to get rid of the dead wood first : be it FTE /consultants/ temps whatever. I know plenty of red badge folk that run rings around the Cisco FTE in both productivity and knowledge base. Note that Red badge people are not paid bonuses and don’t receive any perks. Red badge staff are paid by the hour and are only paid for hours worked.
though i agree with you …resp of dead wood needs to be own by mgrs who are just a piece of crap around 8p0% not all
the benefits they reap by hiring cons makes them add more to it
But the consultants work “more then 3times” (using your grammar)as FTE.
Cisco has 65k FTE. This translates into 195k Contractors.
So if Cisco laid off these 195k contractors, Cisco would need to have 585k FTE. Kumar Chambertha would go nuts!!
But I have a great idea. How about if Cisco got rid of these 65k FTE?
Cisco would need only 22k consultants. What a big savings that would be!!
I was a red badger but got fed up with the mini politics at Cisco, so I joined
LG. Life’s Good!
There will be a 10% staff cut, but it won’t be FTEs.
Right now, they are reviewing each contract position to see if an FTE can perform it.They are planning on eliminating 40% of the contractors. They lay off the contractor and move an FTE into the slot. Of course, the FTEs being moved would be those ranked lowest in their depts, as these will want to keep the best for themselves.
Cisco has 66K FTE plu about 30% contractors - so a total about 80K+ including contrractors. So, 40% contractors is about 8K or about 10% of the 80K workforce. This is the source of the rumours and parsing denials of the Cisco PR.
BTW, everyone is for this solution for two reasons. One - is the severance savings/PR; the other is that contractors are funded quarterly at Cisco. It’s gotten very difficult to get approvals - not so much denials but approvals - lots of follow up; justification, lots of pressure to produce results from a team of contractors to continue securing funding.
The Managers are all FTEs and are very frustrated by this. Changing to FTEs removes the quarterly funding nightmare and reduces pressure on production. Thats the big reason for wanting this change — so much easier if you have FTEs — the pressure to produce is nothing compared to contractors. This pressure will also be relieved on the managers in questions
I gotta agree with the Cisco Kid’s comments.
I just got a notice from my company that Cisco’s reduced monthly rate and termination date.
In my group, I own and lead a module which was fully done by the redbadges. We got a FTE into my module, one red-badge was out a month+ back. Now the same FTE is going to kick me out shortly.
Most of the cases, FTEs are safer out of this latest 10% wash up.
Thanks Cisco Kid for your good analysis, it goes closely with my latest termination notice.
“Let’s get rid of the contractors, it’ll reduce our headcount and get rid of the pressure to produce. Kill two birds with one stone, good thinking, Bud!”
See where thinking like a beancounter gets you?
I know that fiscal prudence is worthwhile, but evidently panic has set in so deeply that people are now lashing deck chairs together into rafts instead of rowing the ship. Maybe that’s a sign that nobody knows where the ship is headed any more.
Yes, Contractors are getting hit big right now. My friend told me at least 20 have been let go over the course of the last week. One Contractor Managment said he has to let go 10%
I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens, but I think Cisco should really give their policy some thought, they should send back all the FTE, or the contractors that they have brought in on H1 and the L visas, lets face it, US citizens should be priority.
1. Cisco should realize at last that contractors who are working on L1 visa for the company as a developers, could cause the company very serious problems from USCIS (ex INS) side.
2. Cisco should review each contract and bring hiring managers for questions if anything suspecios found.
It is illogical for a corporation striving for growth and increasing shareholder value to dismantle/disturb its product teams to meet some hazy patriotic duty (remember the billions of cash that big corporations keep offshore to avoid paying the taxes to the US govt., which is probably more unpatriotic than hiring a few hundred H1Bs.) It is in the realm of possibility that they completely stop hiring H1s, but I don’t even see that happening (if you want to hire fresh CS/EE grads from good schools, a good % are from India/China, unfortunately).
But if we insist on living in the dreamland… if it comes to pass that Cisco does fire all its H1s, I wonder if the highly emotional parliamentarians of India would slap a 500% tariff on anything Cisco wants to sell in India, effectively shutting it out of that market (yes, that emerging market which is supposed to grow 7-10% for the next so many years with lots of spending by public/private sectors on high tech equipment and services). Cisco should then (patriotically) spit on the billions of dollars and focus on the enormous goodwill it would generate in the US by kicking out H1s. It is a given that the local businesses would all completely cut over to Cisco (and dump their existing equipment, if any) to honor themselves by buying Cisco gear. A comfortable win-win situation for Cisco, ain’t it?
I find all this talk about H1 Visas and which percentage (bottom or not) of workers interesting. H1 visas were allowed by the government because companies such as Cisco whined that they couldn’t find qualified engineers in the US. Companies were allowed to hire foreigners on H1 visas provided that they could not find a qualified candidate in the US. I can tell you without a doubt that the companies Cisco has acquired and Cisco itself has violated that policy time and time again. In the late 90’s, I was in meetings at a Cisco acquired startup discussing open positions and watched as executives and hiring managers passed on qualified Americans to hire H1 candidates at half the rate. As with the startup that I mentioned, Cisco has acquired startups that are run by foreigners, who may or may not be citizens of the US. These foreigners hire H1s at half the rate they would pay top US engineers, and they work them day and night. They are told if they don’t perform they will be fired, which due to restrictions on the H1 visa means they have 2 weeks to find a job or get deported. So, at worst, H1 visas are a form of legalized slavery…at best, H1 visas are corporate America’s way of creating legalized sweatshops.
H1 visas may have made a little sense in the late 90s when the technology market was soaring because there were far too many companies doing the same thing, which could cause an engineering shortage. However, when technology tanked in 2001-2003, the severe contraction should have fixed this issue. At that time, there were plenty of qualified Americans who were out of work, while H1 visas were still being granted. In my situation, I will never forget the week that I got my pink slip from Cisco when a foreign employee, who I believe is still with the company, called me to ask me what the difference was between a DSLAM and an ADM. This guy worked on tranport equipment, so there was no excuse for not knowing this.
For those of you wondering whether I was a top 10% or a bottom 5%, I received excellent reviews from my managers. I was promoted twice, my salary was increased 30%, and I received significant bonuses while I was there. So, they don’t only target the bottom 5%. In many cases, they cut indiscriminately.
I have one last observation for you all. Do you honestly think any other country in the world would sit back and allow their citizens to be denied jobs in favor of foreigners? If you have any doubts about this
look at what Japan is doing. I believe in a global economy, but I don’t believe that it has to be at the expense of hard working Americans, but for the last decade that has been the case.
“Do you honestly think any other country in the world would sit back and allow their citizens to be denied jobs in favor of foreigners?”
Yes,the UK.
“Do you honestly think any other country in the world would sit back and allow their citizens to be denied jobs in favor of foreigners?”
This rhetorical question of yours needs a few more follow ups:
1) Is there any other country in the world which believes more solidly in capitalism? I mean American consumers (including the guys losing jobs now) wouldn’t hesitate to buy Japanese cars as long as they think they are getting value for their money, but expect their corporations to be held to a different standard? Since the American auto industry is about shed thousands of jobs, have patriotic Americans stopped buying Hondas and Toyotas? Institutional greed is rooted in individual greed. I guess greed is good if your truly believe in capitalism.
2) Is there a country anywhere in the world that tries to run the affairs of other countries more than your good ole USA (forcing barely break-even economies to open up for “foreign” investment - consequences be damned - so that rich US investors and institutions can get every bit of action they *want* to partake in?) Anybody else who uses IMF and World bank to force other countries to do their bidding? Any other country that sucks out another nation’s resources to fuel its own growth/”way of life” while the supplying country is pillaged? (Nigeria and its oil, many South American countries and their natural resources come to mind). Capitalism is the explanation if anyone complains about these. But not when third worlders bring themselves and their skills to the market and can outsell the first-worlders?
3) This is a ownership society. People are directly/indirectly invested in many of these major companies that hire foreigners or outsource their work. As long as these companies were turning in profits and inflating the investment/retirement accounts of individuals (2005-2007, 1998-2000), were there many people pleading with their congressmen and senators to prevent the companies from hiring the workers from foreign countries? Were you guys wondering at that time why these companies were letting in the brown trash? My guess (just a guess) is that people were happy with the companies that made money, American programmers be damned (see the auto preferences above). Greed, again. Again, very good.
4) All the cock and bull stories about H1s not being qualified at all somehow try to paint a picture that “all” American programmers are excellent. This is just non-sense. I’ve worked with enough people to know that just being an American does not automatically equal competence. I’ve come across some brilliant Americans, a few thoroughly hopeless ones and many good ones. Similarly I’ve come across some brilliant guys from the rest of the world, some truly pathetic ones and quite a few decent ones. So, please shelve these stories that go like, ‘once upon a time I knew a H1 who didn’t know what a particular acronym stood for…’ I too, once upon a time knew an American consultant who couldn’t add a line of code unless you wrote it and gave it to him. What does my experience signify? Nothing more than the fact that one particular guy who happened to be an American, didn’t know squat. That’s all. (Btw, don’t these H1 generalizations seem similar to the ones which tarnished an entire race as criminal?)
Having said all this I feel sorry for hard-working Americans who are being dumped by his own (more powerful) people this way (not that it matters what I feel). In the past downturns I felt very guilty that I was here on a H1 working for a decent pay, while Americans were struggling to make it in their own country. This time I don’t feel that way because I fully expect to be sent packing soon and am busy feeling sorry for myself. My age makes a prime target for pruning.
Wonder how many folks are L1 Visas? My Boss is from the UK.
Layoffs in Cisco Italy too
The 10% is becoming a reality and anticipate more. Management are looking at departments and headcount cuts as we speak. This is FACT! They are way behind the curve when it comes to predicting the downturn and expect then numbers to go higher down the road. Also if you are a remote employee or work from sites other than their main campuses, be afraid, be VERY afraid. They are after you people first! The not so funny thing is is why cant Cisco predict downturns. They have been through three big ones and performed poorly through all of them. Hint: Piss poor leadership and direction from their greedy high level leaders. Even I saw the downturn coming and adjusted accordingly.
The reality is that Cisco has not made any significant changes to its processes or hideous over grown and top heavy management team since the great layoffs of 2001 and 2004. Had they done so, they could be #1 in everything but remain the Titanic of the industry. Promoting people like Randy Pond is their main problem. He couldn’t manage his way out of a wet paper bag. Oh wait, now I get it, its the new Office Space! The people in charge of picking who stays and who goes are the same idiots that should be cut. Cisco remains management top-heavy with directors reporting to directors with no direct reports and high level people who became individual contributors with no pay or compensation cut. They are also using the layoff as they have in the past to eliminate people over 40, replacing them with New College Grads. They do this by manipulating the numbers as they do with everything.
If I were a non-management Cisco employee right now I would be looking for a new job!
Look at it this way, If Cisco had managed its outdated, overpopulated and overpaid management team none of this would be happening. One overpaid director = 10 laid off employees, you do the math! Its a good thing they have money in the bank because their company running skills suck!
The Bottom line? It sucks to work at Cisco right now. They expect you to drink the Company Kool-Aid and be loyal and dedicated 24×7x365 without any support and at the same time are stabbing you in the back. I guess Cisco really does change the way you live, work, and play… after they lay you off you can live In a VAN down by the RIVER!
I’ve been with Cisco 11 years in June. While I don’t understand everything about layoffs and restructuring……..I still love Cisco and what I do!
The people who talk about Patriotism and a capitalistic company in the same context are total brain-deads. In the era when the entire world is your marketplace and it happens to be your source for raw materials, it would be foolish to think of a company to be an “American-only” company and that it should employ only American citizens. Wake up and understand that this is the way things are going to be in future. You compete or perish, it’s up to you to decide. America is floating on an imaginary shell of patriotic behavior where even the most basic of your requirements is probably made out of China. You are spending “plastic” money to purchase your luxuries while getting into a downward spiral of debts. With such a weak foundation, it’s not hard to imagine when your cookie crumbles !!!
Good for you Misc…enjoy the pocket of sanity you have while you can. Cisco is becoming a collection of increasingly isolated and dysfunctional fiefdoms, each with their own set of principles, or lack thereof. There is a very powerful consulting clique in the senior ranks of advanced services…now called ‘advisory’. The Indian population in BU and technology-group senior management is unbelievably ‘over-represented’ and on the whole not very impressive. This is not about managing out under-performers. Cisco resumed taking out its bottom 5% at regular intervals several years ago, and that has already exacted a heavy toll on their vaunted culture. Grandstanding and backstabbing are now desirable qualities of Cisco ‘movers and shakers’. These layoffs make all of that look like childs-play. It is unfolding like a prison gang fight…people are going down left and right and many are indeed good, key people. Patent-holders, PhDs, and other very accomplished individuals. I know one person who closed a $10M deal but was axed just weeks later. Yes this is about restructuring, but to WHAT is the key question. My assessment is that while the restructuring goals are indeed strategic, execution is so inept and politically-motivated that it will take years for Cisco’s customers to forgive the ultimate effect it has on quality and delivery timeframes.
Yes sir, you are right on the money. The Indians are being over-represented. The fools who claim that the representation is based on the number of Indian engineers/product managers at the entry/senior levels - some of who are invariably good and hence end up to get promoted over a period of time - ignore these basic facts:
a) No matter how many Indian engineers/PMs exist there cannot be some of them who are “invariably” good. They all suck.
b) The NFL is a prime example of how “correct” hiring practices breed nothing but success and should be copied by all American companies.
I agree that the Indian guys who got promoted happened to be at the right place at the right time. Otherwise their management skills are zilch. It is only American guys who end up in the wrong place at the wrong time (auto industry for the past 20-30 years, Wall street for the last decade or so, in our very own and beloved tech industry during the dot-com bust). Americans are very forgiving and forward-looking people. Otherwise, if someone actually looked into who created the massive economic messes, I’m kind of positive that massive Indian involvement can be unearthed.
Fools who say that any big company will have its own politics, with or without Indians, have never worked in all-American behemoths where company politics do not exist, there’s wholesomeness all round, people are just happy to be part of the organization and to do whatever they have been asked to at 150% efficiency (apologies, if I missed a couple of other truths). And if there were a few Indians in these wholesome organizations, things were still in order as long as the ones laying off (for inefficiency and other ‘only’ apolitical reasons) were Americans. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, we appreciate how dastardly these brownies are.
To those who say that the entire board of Cisco is American, a vast majority of the top people in sales, engineering, marketing and HR are Americans, that the policies are setup at the top and are carried out lower levels, all I can say is just ‘Shut Up!’ (la-lala-lala, I don’t want to hear you). It is only just that JC and the other Americans at the top should get all the accolades for all the good stuff at Cisco and the Indians at middle and lower levels all the blame for all the bad stuff. If anyone wants to argue this fundamental truth, la-lala-lala, I don’t want to hear you!
Very well said ‘BeenThere’…. I totally agree with you regarding the Indian-Management being over-represented and the they have not done great; just that they were there at the right time to go up and pull ‘others-like-them’ along with them. Survival in Cisco has become more of a politics and backstabbing skills. I love to be part of Cisco but don’t see how Cisco can remain on top of networking industry with this kind of traits being encouraged. It will be heart breaking to see Cisco’s fall in coming years.
i do not understanding why peoples is hating on indian folks.
technology moving fast but you not moved fast.
it is fact most uni in usa is full of indian/chinese…. why???
indian folks is very smart. we saving big money to cisco.
cisco is not survived if all indian folks quit.
ok am not said american folks is dumb. but american wants big pay
and he doing nothing. hello!!! please opened your eyes
I actually love my Indian Engineers. Unfortunately I had a bad Indian Manager that was Managed out to find a new job. My friend also has a bad Indian Manager that protects his bad Indian employees. Its not that all Indians are bad…just 2 Managers.
I agree with BeenThere. I am in ARTG at Cisco and the number of Indians here is amazing. But when limited restructuring was done, they weren’t restructured with the same proportion and believe me, it is not because they are better at work.
It is true that they just pull their own to the top and whoever else comes in between just gets ground to nothing. I am not American or Indian or Chinese so, who cares about me…..maybe I should just quit and go back to where I come from.
Sir, did you actually count? Did you figure out the ePM ratings of everyone who was saved and who wasn’t? Could there be any other reason for the ‘disproportionate’ elimination of non-Indian workers? Could it be that the cuts weren’t even disproportionate to start with? Are you strongly convinced that that it is their Indian-ness that saved some poor performers? Is the fear of job loss bringing out the schizophrenic tendencies in otherwise normal people?
Someone I know works for a group that where there are not many Indians but a couple of the ones that exist got cut. It must be beyond any question that they were incompetent, right? Only Indian managers play politics and are non-objective, right?
ePM rating? Thats the biggest joke in Cisco.
ePM directly translates to whether your manager likes your face or not. I have seen most of the times that you get a favorable rating if you are a favorable person to your manager. Performance is never evaluated correctly due to excessive power given to managers to screw up one’s career. Among all the companies methodology of Performance Rating, I rate Cisco’s ePM as one among the worst method to evaluate someone’s performance.
I have seen managers write non-sense in ePMs without ANY evidence. Reason: Oh, I don’t like your face.
So true. I did my best at Cisco when my Manager and I were close friends. Truth be told, they have to like you and you need to make them look good.
Damn, this is so true. I was let go from the team (and from the company) where only I was non-indian. Red badge, San Jose.
I vote for diversity, not for total ‘indiafication’
Some of the most capable individuals in Cisco are Indian. Unfortunately those in senior management are not among the most capable. Is there favoritism at Cisco…you bet. Is it along ethnic lines at the executive level…it sure appears that way. There is no way that such marginally capable individuals could secure VP and Sr VP positions AND hold them over time otherwise. By marginally capable I am talking about deficits in domain knowledge, in customer-skills, and in organizational development.
There is nothing new here…this is just the latest incarnation of an ‘old boy club’ committed to its own aggrandizement and self-enrichment. The tragedy is that rank-and-file, regardless of ethnicity, pay the highest price when organizations like this collapse. Cisco hasn’t figured out yet what it wants to be when it grows up as a company. In the meantime smoky back-room politics prevail, with mid-level managers gaming-out ePMs, rankings, and any other processes they can toward their best personal outcome. It isn’t just a coincidence that most job-creation comes from small to mid-sized companies. The sort of nonsense that is tolerated within Cisco can have only one possible effect in long-run…job destruction and diminished company value. Sad as this may seem, it is how nature works. Let those who choose to squander their souls in acts of greed and malice do so. In the meantime, vote with your feet because life is way too short to suffer fools. Very few who leave Cisco ever come back, and not due to any restrictive Cisco policy, but rather by choice.
In the discussion about how Indians are over-represented in management/senior management, please do not forget the role acquisitions played. If you trace roots of most “non-competent Indian management” you will notice that they came through acquisitions. To their credit, they had either started companies or were heavyweights in the companies that were deemed good enough for Cisco to acquire. That is generally the trend in my opinion. By the way, this does apply to non-Indians as well.
I had a terrible Indian Manager about 3 years ago. He left my group after I went to HR on the way he was treating me. My girlfriend also has a terrible Indian Manager. She is doing his 360 so hopefuly someone will get a clue. Manage out!
Misc, I felt the great Indian conspiracy at Cisco. The manager was Indian, the managers he consulted with were all Indians. His bosses were Indians. Even the HR guy was Indian. What happened to EOE? At some BU’s there, I really don’t see any EOE.
Don’t blame Indians, blame American education system and politicians.
They are in the blame list too.
You may say whatever you want but everybody knows that indian mangers have hiring preferences. Sure, they could hire a non-indian worker (The company is an Equal Opportunity Employer!), then eat’em alive; fire them; hire an indian, saying “look, I tried hard! but the guy did not fit the team”.
in 2000 I was working for a big telecom company (where scott adams used to work) that employs more than 250k employees and 70k contractors, they laid off ~10k employees per quarter. in one of the company’s meeting the CEO said this
“I hate contractors because they are very expensive, but I can’t stop them because you guys (FTE) are not working, FTE are wasting their time on dirty politics and gossip. we have given the best training and benefits to you but you are not using it wisely”
it is true many FTE waste their training, they never utilized training properly
they offered $1 million for employees >25 years of service and accepted retirement
I compare cisco’s fte with them, to be honest most of the cisco’s fte are useless than the specif telecom company’s
it is time to clean up those junk, if that happens the percentage is going to be more and many so called useless Indians has to get out
ex-csco makes a good point. And in the interest of getting past superficial ethnic-bashing, how about if we do a rollup of some of Cisco’s most infamously boneheaded acquisitions … and how Cisco’s old-boy network takes care of its own in those cases ?
I’ll get the ball rolling…Dynamicsoft, a good startup that came with industry-pioneering VoIP talent. It was a NJ company and geographically far from the San Jose mothership where it could be exploited by empire-builders…a big strike one there. Cisco started deep-six’ing DS product and people not long after the two-year vesting-period ended. Cisco then brought in a hard-charging guy (who hailed from a series of failed startups) to pick up the pieces and ‘right-size’ Cisco’s pre-existing product (acquired earlier from IPCell). He drove anyone of any substance (read threat) out, and tried to squeeze Dynamicsoft functionality into legacy IPcell product with an oddball, platypus-like approach. Efforts to sell the entire business subsequently failed.
The hard-charger was then made a Senior VP running several business units, where he has been doing the same ‘good work’ the past two years or so. And surprise, he was recently promoted ! I think you can guess which direction that group of businesses has been going, along with its talent-base, and well before the economy turned….down and out. Word from those being affected by recent layoffs there? It is a relief to not be under the heel of this hatchet-man whose only credo has been ‘ready-fire-aim’. It’s all about style and the appearance of assertiveness with Cisco senior management like this. Substance and effectiveness are apparently just ‘nice-to-haves’ should they happen to come along with the package. That is all run-of-the-mill, big-company acts of stupidity. It is telling of Cisco’s future, but it is not particularly unique to industry.
A key question is…even if it was perfectly sound business judgment to exit after spending several hundred million in IPCell/Dynamicsoft acquisitions…how much of that vibrant, entrepreneurial talent did Cisco leverage to other areas of Cisco business, thus denying competitors and startups ? The answer is few to none. That is just one example of how Cisco’s ‘old-boy network’ takes care of its own, and at great expense to Cisco shareholders and Cisco employees. There are a slew of stories like these associated with Cisco and Cisco senior management. That is what makes large portions of Cisco not so very different from GM and other inbred, ‘ethically-challenged’ companies struggling to find their rudder.
Folks, lets be realistic. Look at the world population. 1/6 - One among every sixth is an India, 1/6 - One among every sixth is a Chinese. 4 of the remaining 6 is from the remaining 100 odd countries in the world.
This would mean, it is very obvious that you will find lot of Indians and Chinese wherever you go. Irrespective of any company, be it MSFT,CSCO,QCOM,BRCM,YHOO. You are bound to see so many Indians and Chinese.
y’all, born yesterday
In 1971 in San Jose in Fairchild R&D we have to hire white fox because 995 were Chindian.
chindian: wow , you are so SMART>.. did the world population just arose in last few years?
we have seen indians+chiness getting in to IT in last few years… so your
explanation is off base…. it does not make any sense at all. US companies
are hiring indians to save costs, not because of world population.. wake up dude.
Hi- Has anyone heard of any pending layoffs at the Roseville, Ca location? Thanks!
Stop Bashing Cisco Indian employees and managers. Every manager has responsibility to deliver and empowered to choose him team. I have been in Cisco for more than 8 years. I have seen Indian managers has more Indian employees. So does Chinese, Australian, Arabic, European and other ethnic managers. Since Indians are more in IT. You will see more Indian managers and FTEs. Making such generic statements about Indians is not fair.
Interesting. All I can tell you is that both me and a friend had to go to HR because of them. One 2 of hundreds I am sure.
“Stop Bashing Cisco Indian employees and managers. Every manager has responsibility to deliver and empowered to choose him team. I have been in Cisco for more than 8 years. I have seen Indian managers has more Indian employees. So does Chinese, Australian, Arabic, European and other ethnic managers. Since Indians are more in IT. You will see more Indian managers and FTEs. Making such generic statements about Indians is not fair.”
Yes, it is fair. They’re taking jobs from Americans. Sorry, gotta call it like I see it.
>> Since Indians are more in IT.
ofcourse, all american ex IT guys are working in home depot now.
Latest rumor is that Cisco will delay the 10% layoff planned in May due to economy is getting better.
But we will get 1 week shutdown in August.
1-week shutdown will be nice. When are they gonna announce it?
I did hear a rumor several weeks ago that there would be a shutdown in August. My Boss is unaware of it.
Anon, Thanks for sharing the rumor. It has been published as an “Update 3 (04-30-2009)”
Rumor I heard yesterday is there is another round of layoffs late May. I don’t have details on how many or which dept. Came from a friend of mine in San Jose.
The August furlough is for reals. Expect an announcement during the earnings call. Exact dates are still a secret.
From what I hear the layoff is still in progress. Management has made their cut lists and will go ahead as planned in May. Stay tuned…
our president “obama” is black but you will not find too many
african american in cisco… you know why? because indian
managers are racist… they do not want to hire black men..
you should see in their eyes (indian managers)
how they love ruling the white men (after india has been ruled by British
for years)… cisco=racist company…
I find the black racist comment quite ignorant given that San Jose only has 3% black population and blacks are a very low minority in engineering. In my engineering college days there were only 2 blacks in the entire class. I agree that Indians are the huge majority in engineering but that’s true for most tech companies. To say Cisco doesn’t hire blacks as a matter of record shows your lack of the facts. It can’t hire a particular race in any significant numbers if there are so few applicants. White women are also a big minority in engineering too - dominated by Indian and Asian. Cisco has a lot of minority social groups of many races as well as gay/lesbian so I know they are very open to diversity.
Hey bob … just because you’re not good enough to get into Cisco, it doesn’t mean you try to use the race card.